John Stones

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kevin horlocks wand said:
It was me. My point is anyone alongside kompany is fine because he is a leader and organiser. It's when he is injured we go to shit. We need a different gobby strong leader type like huth, John terry , yes even shawcross. Another good footballer is not what we need when Kompany is injured another leader is what we need.

Look we don't need to sign anyone if vinny can stay fit for the entire season but in recent years that has not happened so we need to think about a deputy for kompany not mangala or Oti. Hence why I don't think stones is right. He is certainly not right when it is 40 mill plus.
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Have you even heard of Pep?
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
The key word is "like".....

It must be possible to find someone who can control our line and be a good footballer and organiser to sort out our defending and attacking on our set pieces with a budget of 40m. I just cannot believe that person happens to be John stones. We need to cast our net wider.

To be honest though you do make a fair point on the high point issue which pep loves as well. However this is the same high line we have been caught on by indiscipline playing offside this season. We do need to get this right next season as we will be paying a high line as you state. Some organisation will be needed.
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Pep's high line has absolutely no similarity at all to Peller's. One is controlled with an emphasis on other players thwarting a counterattack before it starts. One is Kamikaze football.
 
BlueDeadHead said:
Perhaps but the whole point is that ball won't be coming over the top if the rest of the team does its job.
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If they do their job, it's exactly what will happen. Put pressure on say Huth and he's either going to kick it out or over the top of the defence. Against a team with quick strikers or someone like an Andy Carroll and unless the defenders are quick and strong, you're in trouble. Keeper has to push way out of his area to play sweeper which can lead to errors.

I'm looking forward to see how Bayern deal with Atletico tonight, as that's exactly what they're facing and English teams will be much happier to go long
 
bluesince76 said:
If they do their job, it's exactly what will happen. Put pressure on say Huth and he's either going to kick it out or over the top of the defence. Against a team with quick strikers or someone like an Andy Carroll and unless the defenders are quick and strong, you're in trouble. Keeper has to push way out of his area to play sweeper which can lead to errors.

I'm looking forward to see how Bayern deal with Atletico tonight, as that's exactly what they're facing and English teams will be much happier to go long
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I don't know if I agree with that. It suggests that you think Pep's tactics would be easily exploited by English teams. I just don't buy it. He basically was able to nullify the Bundasliga's most potent weapon (the counter) within 6 weeks.

In the scenario above I think it is more likely that Huth isn't able to get a good clearance because of the intense pressure and we get possession back and start passing.

I do agree that tonight's will be a fascinating but then again Atletico defensively is on a whole different level than any PL team.
 
I tell you what if Pep plays defence in the Premier League like some above are suggesting we are going to get absolutely mullered.
 
BlueDeadHead said:
I don't know if I agree with that. It suggests that you think Pep's tactics would be easily exploited by English teams. I just don't buy it. He basically was able to nullify the Bundasliga's most potent weapon (the counter) within 6 weeks.

In the scenario above I think it is more likely that Huth isn't able to get a good clearance because of the intense pressure and we get possession back and start passing.

I do agree that tonight's will be a fascinating but then again Atletico defensively is on a whole different level than any PL team.
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Cough
 
Dax777 said:
Liverpool. That's it. Had a bad game. Then there is the highly publicized Watford back pass. If that was Ter Steegen ( Or Hopefully Hart by next season) the ball is simply return lobbed into Stones path and it's hailed as high level possession potential. I wouldn't worry my head too much about that.

All the other goals were errors by reputation. To some extent even the Watford goal. There was still a cornerkick, which is not a gimme. And defending it was poor. Again, systemic. Not individual.

I'll grant you this, there are cheaper, somewhat Similarly talented CBs we could buy instead of paying 50 million for Stones. I'm not oblivious to that. There is Virgil at Southampton, Rugani, Sule, Romagnoli, Tah, Diego Reyes and a host of others.

But that's a scouting issue. That is not Stones fault that we are not looking into cheaper alternatives who may be just as good for our system.

If we ignore the cost and simply focus on whether the talent is there. The answer is a resounsing yes for Stones. He is talented both as a defender and as a footballer.

Lots of people watched the United FA cup game. Specifically to checkout Stones. Read the responses on this thread. I believe Fantasyireland posted the initial comment of him giving up the goal to Felliani ( I disagree with that assessment, but that's neither here nor there, just opinions.) Bit pay attention to the reaction everyone has from then on.

The general thrust was that he had had a stellar overall game. Even though some blame him for both goals. The talent is undeniable when you actually watch him the whole game.

He was marshall's a defence that includes 4 other experienced internationals. Baines, Coleman, Jageilka and the US goalie early on. His leadership abilities jump off the screen.

After watching him numerous times, I have no qualms about getting him. Yes, the price Rob's me the wrong way, but we paid similar for Mangala, I didn't think he was half that good.

Funny enough Mangala was the rage here back then, when I thought we'd be better off spending our limited funds on Sanchez and Fabregas if we wanted to retain the title.

Well we went Mangala and Fernando instead and lost the title anyway.
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I said previously, he has talent... One of the best on the ball. But he's a poor defender.... We'll ship goals all over with him at centre half. Or if we seriously buy him for the prices quoted, then play him as a DM (which plenty of people are suggesting), a position he's hardly ever played. Then the lunatics are running the asylum....!!

Just not a good buy for me at the prices quoted. Guess we'll have to see what happens in the summer. One of us is going to be very wrong!!!
 
BlueDeadHead said:
Ha! Fair Dos...Atletico are the real deal. Two CL finals in three years. They ain't Stoke.
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It was more the impact of Boateng pushing into attacking mid, not winning the ball, two passes later a one on one. A ball over the top would have achieved the same.

Pressure on the ball is great, but it requires you pushing up which leaves gaps at the back. That's the great thing about football - there never the 'right' system, everything is beatable.
 
bluesince76 said:
It was more the impact of Boateng pushing into attacking mid, not winning the ball, two passes later a one on one. A ball over the top would have achieved the same.

Pressure on the ball is great, but it requires you pushing up which leaves gaps at the back. That's the great thing about football - there never the 'right' system, everything is beatable.
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No disagreement on that. I still think Pep's tactics will confound English teams "generally" but you are right. Every system is beatable. What a game that was!
 
I wouldn't sign him never mind the fee , he's a liability as he's cumbersome on the ball , a sloppy passer and dives in too much. Van Dijk is the real deal and could probably be snapped up at half the price. His time at the saints has only confirmed what I saw at Celtic and for me he has quickly established himself as one of the best centre backs in the league. Him and Denayer were an exceptional cool calm composed partnership which was perfectly balanced. In my humble opinion Denayer ( at Celtic ) appeared to have more potential as he progressed at an incredible rate. Two quick ball playing centre backs with great tackling , game reading , pace and positioning. It just makes sense to me.
 
alan w said:
I wouldn't sign him never mind the fee , he's a liability as he's cumbersome on the ball , a sloppy passer and dives in too much. Van Dijk is the real deal and could probably be snapped up at half the price. His time at the saints has only confirmed what I saw at Celtic and for me he has quickly established himself as one of the best centre backs in the league. Him and Denayer were an exceptional cool calm composed partnership which was perfectly balanced. In my humble opinion Denayer ( at Celtic ) appeared to have more potential as he progressed at an incredible rate. Two quick ball playing centre backs with great tackling , game reading , pace and positioning. It just makes sense to me.
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Well fear not as he is Chelsea bound
 
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