John Stones

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Everton lost a CB (Matthew Pennington) to injury during their friendly yesterday. Hoping their rumoured deal for Williams is cover for Stones and not for the injury to Pennington.
 
City_Sean said:
To all the people saying walk away from the Deal, who do you propose we sign? We've currently got options of Kompany (who's injury prone), Denayer (who's not good enough), Mangala (who's not good enough) and Otamendi (who still needs better coaching to stop his mistakes)
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Do you actually like any of our players ?

Every time I am in a thread all I seem to see is you slating players left right and centre, it really must be hard work to be such a fan like you, what pleasure are you getting out of it ?
 
I think people who think we're signing a near-complete, UCL quality defender are going to be bitterly disappointed. Like with Sterling, lots of people will think that because of the fee we should expect a player on par with Otamendi. Based on the evidence of last season, that's not what we're getting.

What we're paying for is the potential for a world class player, safe in the knowledge that no manager in the world is more likely to get that potential out of him than Pep. I really think Stones can be City and England captain in five years time but the first season at City will not make him look like a £50 million player. There will be mistakes, and some of them will lead to conceding goals, just like with Mangala. Some fans (not all of us) will lose patience with him quickly, just like with Mangala. I'd be willing to bet that there will be people who want him sold this time next season, just like with Mangala. It's potential we're buying and we need patience and understanding that Stones didn't ask to cost this much money.
 
SWP's back said:
If we bought a CB for £4m from some Croatian team, 4/5ths of this forum would top themselves.
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Yea. Probably. I'm just sick of burning money on the likes of Mangala and Otty. And then getting stuck with them because of their wages.
 
MarsLlama said:
I think people who think we're signing a near-complete, UCL quality defender are going to be bitterly disappointed. Like with Sterling, lots of people will think that because of the fee we should expect a player on par with Otamendi. Based on the evidence of last season, that's not what we're getting.

What we're paying for is the potential for a world class player, safe in the knowledge that no manager in the world is more likely to get that potential out of him than Pep. I really think Stones can be City and England captain in five years time but the first season at City will not make him look like a £50 million player. There will be mistakes, and some of them will lead to conceding goals, just like with Mangala. Some fans (not all of us) will lose patience with him quickly, just like with Mangala. I'd be willing to bet that there will be people who want him sold this time next season, just like with Mangala. It's potential we're buying and we need patience and understanding that Stones didn't ask to cost this much money.
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Yea. I hear what you're saying. But Mangala has been here two years. We haven't lost patience with him. He has just been an expensive mistake.
 
John Stones on just defensive ability would probably be the worst CB in our team but if you judge him on just his football ability then in that regard he'd be the best. Same as Jerome Boateng, he's a pretty naff defender but on the ball there's no-one better.

He is tailor made for the system Pep is implementing, the recycling the play back to the keeper who passes it out to a defender, who then has to look up/turn out of trouble and getting us moving forward again. They have to be the epitome of calm under pressure which is Stones 101. As a defender, in a pep team, how good you are on the ball is more important than how good a defender you are because with the 65% possession and the whole team pressing, the defenders don't have much defending to do.

Just think he is unsuited to the system Martinez had him and Everton playing which left him exposed. Just like Boateng and Nastasic(also very good on the ball) were when our system was more suited to a bulldozing Lescott than a ball playing CB.

Hope we get this done then next year replace Vinny(depending on how he fares with injury this season)/Mangala with Tosin.
 
Steve68 said:
Yea. I hear what you're saying. But Mangala has been here two years. We haven't lost patience with him. He has just been an expensive mistake.
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That's the bit I left out. The difference between Stones and Mangala will hopefully be that under the coaching of someone who knows how to teach defending, Stones will grow and improve.
Also, watching Efe Ambrose for Celtic yesterday reminded me to always be thankful for Mangala simply because he could be a whole lot worse.
 
cleavers said:
We could just bid £12m for Ashley Williams.
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We could have had the guy for even less when we were setting fire to £40 mill for Mangala. Not by any means the greatest CB in the world but a lot cheaper, could have done a job and ticked the HG box. Plus leave us with £30 mill.
 
MarsLlama said:
That's the bit I left out. The difference between Stones and Mangala will hopefully be that under the coaching of someone who knows how to teach defending, Stones will grow and improve.
Also, watching Efe Ambrose for Celtic yesterday reminded me to always be thankful for Mangala simply because he could be a whole lot worse.
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True. We could have done worse, but saved a ton of cash. Everton got Stones for £7 mill when he was being written about as one to watch. West Ham and Leicester pay peanuts for players worth thirty mill a season later. If we are going to gamble on untried players from leagues totwlly unlike ours then I would rather we bet small. Or just go in big for the real proven guys from Germany and Italy. Or here.
 
Steve68 said:
We could have had the guy for even less when we were setting fire to £40 mill for Mangala. Not by any means the greatest CB in the world but a lot cheaper, could have done a job and ticked the HG box. Plus leave us with £30 mill.
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Might point was, that if we did bid £12m for Ashley Williams this place would go into melt down not that I want us too bid.

Pep wants Stones, so he obviously see's something he wants, good enough for me. Mangala shouldn't be written off either, he's young and can learn, and he now has a manager who can teach, same with Otamendi, who I hope is being coached to stop launching himself and missing. With the 3 we currently have, Stones, Denayer, and Tosin all knocking around we would for the first time in recent seasons have decent cover at CB, with an environment where there is some competition.
 
cleavers said:
Might point was, that if we did bid £12m for Ashley Williams this place would go into melt down not that I want us too bid.

Pep wants Stones, so he obviously see's something he wants, good enough for me. Mangala shouldn't be written off either, he's young and can learn, and he now has a manager who can teach, same with Otamendi, who I hope is being coached to stop launching himself and missing. With the 3 we currently have, Stones, Denayer, and Tosin all knocking around we would for the first time in recent seasons have decent cover at CB, with an environment where there is some competition.
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Agree about Mangala, but if we bring in Stones plus Sane we need to offload 4 . I can't see Mangala not being one of the four, with Bony, Fernando, and Kolarov. Possibly Navas or Nasri could be alternatives but I only see them going if we bring in replacement attacker or central midfielder.
 
If true Williams is a great deal for them for 10 million and if they sell Stones for 40 million they are 30 million up and in my opinion slightly stronger in the short term depending on whether Koeman wishes to play out from the back.

On a different note Boateng widely acknowledges the difference Pep made to his career, so surprised that none of the media mention how good it would be for England having a CB with great potential working under the best manager and coaching team in the game!!
 
blueparrot said:
Agree about Mangala, but if we bring in Stones plus Sane we need to offload 4 . I can't see Mangala not being one of the four, with Bony, Fernando, and Kolarov. Possibly Navas or Nasri could be alternatives but I only see them going if we bring in replacement attacker or central midfielder.
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If we are playing 3 at the back I think we will need 5 good centre backs. Mangala, Stones, Otamendi, Kompany and Denayer.

I have no idea who Pep will sell as he seems to be giving everyone a fair crack but my choices would be for Yaya, Bony, Fernando, Kolarov and maybe Sagna to leave.
 
Keeping a player for 2 years against his will at such a young age will obviously have a negative impact on his development and value.
Hold firm in negotiation.
It's not just about it's consequence on this deal it's about all the others moving forward.
 
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