"Joint approach to improve behaviour"

[Metalartin]

Most of this is ok(in the rules anyway) but what about when a ref is clearly wrong by a mile? "Running towards and contesting a decision"(he'll just run off if they walk you know it haha) is warranted there IMO, the ref needs to be made aware he's fucked up immediately... last season there were more than a few calls that were so blatantly wrong(not close calls, obvious in real time... no excuse for 2 paid professionals to miss) we all joke about corrupt referees but there were very real instances last season that had quite a few people thinking how the fuck a ref and linesman can be that shit without doing it deliberately.

If they are going to do this then for the love of all that is fair and just... can we finally make the FAs incompetent refs accountable for their own mistakes for once? This isn't rugby where they can officially contest calls and have video re-plays when they are clearly wrong.

In theory it sounds like a good thing because the refs just doing their jobs shouldn't be getting abuse and players shouldn't be controlling refs or influencing their decisions. As others have probably said though this could be a way to let certain refs influence games(they should never influence a game they are there to enforce the rules of the game full stop) unhindered which I imagine we'll definitely be on the wrong end of more often than not judging by last season.

Aguero or Silva daring to question a ref for being hacked down and kicked from pillar to post? Yellow card! Complains about the Yellow? Red card! That's the kind of scenario I'm more concerned about. Or maybe a blatant offside like at Spurs, defender already on Yellow dares to demand an explanation? Second Yellow... game ruined by shit referee and lino with too much power and zero competence/completely bent.

 

[ianw16]

Most of this is ok(in the rules anyway) but what about when a ref is clearly wrong by a mile? "Running towards and contesting a decision"(he'll just run off if they walk you know it haha) is warranted there IMO, the ref needs to be made aware he's fucked up immediately... last season there were more than a few calls that were so blatantly wrong(not close calls, obvious in real time... no excuse for 2 paid professionals to miss) we all joke about corrupt referees but there were very real instances last season that had quite a few people thinking how the fuck a ref and linesman can be that shit without doing it deliberately.

If they are going to do this then for the love of all that is fair and just... can we finally make the FAs incompetent refs accountable for their own mistakes for once? This isn't rugby where they can officially contest calls and have video re-plays when they are clearly wrong.

In theory it sounds like a good thing because the refs just doing their jobs shouldn't be getting abuse and players shouldn't be controlling refs or influencing their decisions. As others have probably said though this could be a way to let certain refs influence games(they should never influence a game they are there to enforce the rules of the game full stop) unhindered which I imagine we'll definitely be on the wrong end of more often than not judging by last season.

Aguero or Silva daring to question a ref for being hacked down and kicked from pillar to post? Yellow card! Complains about the Yellow? Red card! That's the kind of scenario I'm more concerned about. Or maybe a blatant offside like at Spurs, defender already on Yellow dares to demand an explanation? Second Yellow... game ruined by shit referee and lino with too much power and zero competence/completely bent.

Well, as long as football continues to lag behind other (less affluent) sports in its use of technology, then the players will just have to suck it up. Ever seen a ref change a decision due to a player hurling abuse at him? As in rugby, there is no penalty for the captain asking for an explanation of a decision in a reasonable manner. However, it is unlikely that technology will be used for incidents where a free kick has been awarded. Given that footballers seems to dispute so many decisions, even throw-ins where it is blatantly obvious that they touched it last, then the game would be reduced to 30 second cameos between video referee decisions. Even in rugby, unless it is to do with serious foul play (i.e. yellow or red), the ref doesn't go upstairs for penalties. I've seen dodgy decisions, later shown to be in error, cost teams a test match (Scotland v Australia, WC 2015, for instance), or a Super Rugby grand final. Nobody abused the ref, even though they knew the decision was probably wrong.
I suspect the problem with football is that players have got away with it for too long, and managers (we know who they are/ were) tell their players to behave in such a manner. It doesn't change the current decision, but it may intimidate the ref into thinking twice about the next one.
In short; the whole culture needs to change. Nothing wrong with, "could you check with the linesman please, ref?". A lot wrong with, "you ******** useless, blind ****, what are you doing?"

 

[Metalartin]

Well, as long as football continues to lag behind other (less affluent) sports in its use of technology, then the players will just have to suck it up. Ever seen a ref change a decision due to a player hurling abuse at him? As in rugby, there is no penalty for the captain asking for an explanation of a decision in a reasonable manner. However, it is unlikely that technology will be used for incidents where a free kick has been awarded. Given that footballers seems to dispute so many decisions, even throw-ins where it is blatantly obvious that they touched it last, then the game would be reduced to 30 second cameos between video referee decisions. Even in rugby, unless it is to do with serious foul play (i.e. yellow or red), the ref doesn't go upstairs for penalties. I've seen dodgy decisions, later shown to be in error, cost teams a test match (Scotland v Australia, WC 2015, for instance), or a Super Rugby grand final. Nobody abused the ref, even though they knew the decision was probably wrong.
I suspect the problem with football is that players have got away with it for too long, and managers (we know who they are/ were) tell their players to behave in such a manner. It doesn't change the current decision, but it may intimidate the ref into thinking twice about the next one.
In short; the whole culture needs to change. Nothing wrong with, "could you check with the linesman please, ref?". A lot wrong with, "you ******** useless, blind ****, what are you doing?"

Well as far as some of the refs we have are concerned I'm not bothered if people call them a few names haha(also they're grown men they're not that fragile and most of it is not that bad and quickly forgotten)... but we do need rid of it simply because we don't want to see that on TV bad example and all that. I wasn't really defending any of that though(it's already in the rules so they can't complain if they get a card for giving out abuse or shoving etc) just the right to contest a decision when he's made a howler(even though it wont change things he needs to know he's made a mistake IMO especially the ones who might have bias) which one of the rules states will result in a yellow, I imagine it's the running up to him part but they are hardly going to walk especially as most refs would jog away so they don't have to hear it. Maybe the captain should be allowed to at least point things out if necessary to stop players swarming.

 

[ianw16]

Well as far as some of the refs we have are concerned I'm not bothered if people call them a few names haha(also they're not that fragile)... but we do need rid of is simply because we don't want to see that on TV bad example and all that. I wasn't really defending any of that just the right to contest a decision when he's made a howler(even though it wont change things he needs to know he's made a mistake IMO especially the ones who might have bias) which one of the rules states will result in a yellow, I imagine it's the running up to him part but they are hardly going to walk especially as most refs would jog away so they don't have to hear it.

Sorry, but you cannot "contest" a decision. A captain can approach the ref and ask for an explanation. He can't say "You were wrong, care to reconsider?" What's the point? As I've said, unless the lino is stood there with his flag out, then the decision will stand. You won't get a yellow for asking for an explanation.
If things are so bad that referees are biased or bent, then there is little point arguing in the first place. And if they really were, there is little point in following the game, if things have got to that level.

 

[Metalartin]

Sorry, but you cannot "contest" a decision. A captain can approach the ref and ask for an explanation. He can't say "You were wrong, care to reconsider?" What's the point? As I've said, unless the lino is stood there with his flag out, then the decision will stand. You won't get a yellow for asking for an explanation.
If things are so bad that referees are biased or bent, then there is little point arguing in the first place. And if they really were, there is little point in following the game, if things have got to that level.

Yeah bad choice of words, it's pointing out he made a mistake really isn't it? Some refs do have bias but it's not always a conscious thing(bent is something a lot of us question but never really believe there will have been some isolated cases down the years due to the law of averages IMO but we'll probably never know about them)if someone adamantly tells them they got something wrong they might subconsciously reign it in. I've often thought with these ear pieces, can't that be someone job not to change the decision in real time but review the replay(could be that someone's dived and he's gave a pen, could be someones trying to get someone sent off trying to get a reaction) and let him know he's messed up so a team isn't bombarded with shit decisions?

 

[ianw16]

Yeah bad choice of words, it's pointing out he made a mistake really isn't it? Some refs do have bias but it's not always a conscious thing(bent is something a lot of us question but never really believe there will have been some isolated cases down the years due to the law of averages IMO but we'll probably never know about them)if someone adamantly tells them they got something wrong they might subconsciously reign it in. I've often thought with these ear pieces, can't that be someone job not to change the decision in real time but review the replay(could be that someone's dived and he's gave a pen, could be someones trying to get someone sent off trying to get a reaction) and let him know he's messed up so a team isn't bombarded with shit decisions?

TBH, for big decisions, such as penalties and red cards, video replays should be available. Maybe even offsides that result in a goal. If there is no clear cut evidence either way (which there often isn't in many of these replays), then the original decision stands. However, I doubt it'll happen. Took them long enough to bring in goal line technology. In the meantime, asking for an explanation, and maybe offering his own opinion, is the best that a captain can do. Without the ref having video replays to fall back on, or the intervention of a linesman, he isn't going to change his decision. Except in a very rare instance where a player "owns up". Didn't Fowler get awarded a penalty, and then told the ref that it wasn't? Not going to happen very often these days.

 

[goatersnipple]

I notice they have waited till the granny shagger is to fat and slow to chase the refs before they bring this rule in.
They could send that bastard off 25 times a game if they follow the rules.
Which they might do for us or Bournemouth but definitely not them