Jorginho

[Blue Hefner]

Cause we've been let down or fucked about by our other targets

That’s certainly one way of looking at it......

 

[93.01]

As much as I like the look of him, his mobility compared do dhino may be a problem, when you look at the rest of our midfield which although excellent in many dont have the engine and application of dhino.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

Well have you got the hanky with the names on in order of preference?
I thought we had made him our No 1 aquisition and this has been touted in the press.
It was Fred in January but now it's Jorginho.

 

[bluealf]

Can I say this would be a good signing :)

 

[ballinio]

Can I say this would be a good signing :)

No, we need to get the academy lads in , this sighning would block their way.
What have we got an academy for ? :)

 

[bluealf]

If he's only clever but slow and not good enough for what we need or the Premier League, why does Pep want to buy him? Why does Twixt agree with him and why does Khaldoon support them and fund the transfer. Do you think his name came up in a cracker at the Xmas party?

Such a lazy argument, somebody once said the same thing about Mangala, who sanctioned that deal ? Also Bony ? Fernando ? Bravo ? and worst of all nearly JFE shudders

 

[bluealf]

No, we need to get the academy lads in , this sighning would block their way.
What have we got an academy for ? :)

Thank you :)

You are correct of course but I am not sure we have anybody in the defensive roll to take over from Fernie, well not yet anyway, I wanted A. Garcia to be that guy but it looks extremely unlikely now.

 

[The Riot Club]

Regardless of your opinion of Jorginho (and Mahrez), isn't it just a bit disappointing that we're going for players that aren't of a high enough standard to remove any argument whether they're good enough for us or not?

Everyone would be getting giddy on here if we were close to getting Hazard and Mbappe, for example, or if we'd got Fabinho. Yet the targets the club has identified are dividing opinion, which isn't the best sign.

I just wish we would really go for it from such a position of strength in terms of our dominant season, manager and financial clout. But we're spending on players you'd expect Spurs or Arsenal to look at, not a team with genuine CL winning aspirations. That is disappointing in my opinion.

 

[birchwoodgingerste]

I still think we will sign fred as well hes quoted as saying he hasnt made a decision yet and will after the world cup.

 

[br88]

Everyone would be getting giddy on here if we were close to getting Hazard and Mbappe, for example, or if we'd got Fabinho. Yet the targets the club has identified are dividing opinion, which isn't the best sign.

I just wish we would really go for it from such a position of strength in terms of our dominant season, manager and financial clout. But we're spending on players you'd expect Spurs or Arsenal to look at, not a team with genuine CL winning aspirations. That is disappointing in my opinion.

Clearly you have not seen much of Fabinho putting him alongside Hazard and Mbappe...nowhere near these two. Jorginho is on a higher level and your comment about getting giddy if we signed Fabinho is quite ridiculous.

 

[Callum Ramsey]

We've come to a point where fernandinho's passing ability is being underrated while on the other side jorginho's defensive ability is being underrated aswel. Fernandinho might not be as good of a press resistant passer as jorginho and his biggest weakness by far is his decision making in passing when his back is facing the opposition goal and he's asked to pass from the back in the build-up phase from defence. That weakness in his game has always stood out in games against top quality teams that are not afraid to press from the front. Thinking liverpool away/napoli games and though its rarely an issue as 90% of the opposition the team face put 10 men behind the ball and rarely apply pressure, he tends to get exposed in that area of his game when he's put under pressure against the better teams especially when he's facing towards the goal. With that said, while jorginho might be better in that side of the game there's not much between them when it comes to actual passing ability in build-up play when they both have the time to pick a pass. Fernandinho can pick a pass with the best of them in his position in the build-up phase of an attack. His weakness in passing decision-making when pressure is applied on him from the back does not take that away and is clouding many on his actual passing ability. Truth be told he's a box-to-box midfielder turned into an anchor man and therefore his strength has always been work-rate, passing in the transitional phase of an attack and tackling. Therefore not particularly the busquets type who has incredible positional awareness and anticipation as well as passing ability/composure in all facets of the game.

As for jorginho, while he may not have the work-rate and energy of fernandinho or the positional awareness of a busquets, his actual anticipation of play and tackling is just as good as ferns. Therefore he can do as good a job as fernandinho in quickly applying pressure to win the ball back in the opposition third to maintain control like pep requires in this system. The problem with him comes when the team is getting hit on the break, he will often struggle to recover quicker compared to fernandinho. But as far as tackling and applying pressure he is just as good. Both these players have their pros and cons but jorginho's pros is more in line with pep's requirement for the team and system compared to fernandinho's. I think the best way I can describe them is that in a game against a top opposition like chelsea where their game is more on the use of counters and such allow space, sit back and wait for the opportunity to break and are deadly in the transitional phase especially with their overlapping full-backs, I would use fernandinho both for his passing ability in building up attack as he's afforded more time but more importantly in his ability to read the game and recover quickly with his energy when the team is being hit on the break. Meanwhile in a game against Liverpool where ability to be composed in high-pressuring situations and build attacks from the back to both control the temp and expose space is more important, Jorginho would be perfect.The biggest thing against Klopps liverpool is composure on the ball rather than energy. A majority of their goals against Pep's city the past 2 seasons has been from a lack of composure from the back. So when it comes down to it there will be a place for both of these top players in this team.

 

[Tevez City]

Jorginho doesn't play as DM with Napoli, Its Allan who do the defensive job and play in Fernandinho's position.

 

[Glauber Berti]

Jorginho doesn't play as DM with Napoli, Its Allan who do the defensive job and play in Fernandinho's position.

Although it can be argue that Allan does more of the defensive work for Sarri’s side he most certainly doesn’t play in Fernandinhos position.

Fernandinhos position is at the base of the midfield, the exact position Jorginho occupies.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Did anyone else watch him last night against Saudi Arabia? His passing and ball control was great, but he`s not very good defensively. He might be a better fit than Fernandinho to our system, but he`s nowhere near as good defensively as Dinho, and rarely wins headers too. Will be interesting to see how he does here, but for me his defending abilities could be a problem

Which is why he will probably never be a 'better' fit. He might be a different fit who is just as good, in another way, or he might actually be a great partner for Fernandinho in certain games, but it's pretty unlikely he'll be 'better' imo as Fernandinho is 3 players in one.

The way we play. hopefully, Joginho will be less exposed than in a 'normal' team & his anticipation will make up for his lack of defensive strength. But he will find himself in that situation at times & he will get mugged off the ball near our box at times.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Although it can be argue that Allan does more of the defensive work for Sarri’s side he most certainly doesn’t play in Fernandinhos position.

Fernandinhos position is at the base of the midfield, the exact position Jorginho occupies.

Which is ironically, not the position he played when we signed him. He just did that job, to protect Yaya Toure & then has stayed there because nobody better has been found . He was much better, in his original position & had to learn this one.

 

[The Riot Club]

Clearly you have not seen much of Fabinho putting him alongside Hazard and Mbappe...nowhere near these two. Jorginho is on a higher level and your comment about getting giddy if we signed Fabinho is quite ridiculous.

Ok, so disregarding Fabinho, I still think it's disappointing we're not aiming higher this transfer window, given our position of strength. We should be signing players that will increase our dominance, not just flesh out the squad, particularly given how the teams who finished below us will strengthen to try and catch us. Demoralise them, sign Mbappe or Hazard or Bale and just don't let the rags and scousers get closer.

 

[CityStu]

Ok, so disregarding Fabinho, I still think it's disappointing we're not aiming higher this transfer window, given our position of strength. We should be signing players that will increase our dominance, not just flesh out the squad, particularly given how the teams who finished below us will strengthen to try and catch us. Demoralise them, sign Mbappe or Hazard or Bale and just don't let the rags and scousers get closer.

Arguable whether any of those 3 had better seasons than their equivalents in the City team, so they may turn out to be incredibly expensive squad players that may disrupt squad harmony with their wage demands.

It's very likely that Liverpool and United will improve their first teams more than City will this summer, but only because they have much more headroom to improve.

 

[richards30]

Gone abit quiet on this the last day or so? Hopefully a good sign!

 

[PragueBlue]

Ok, so disregarding Fabinho, I still think it's disappointing we're not aiming higher this transfer window, given our position of strength. We should be signing players that will increase our dominance, not just flesh out the squad, particularly given how the teams who finished below us will strengthen to try and catch us. Demoralise them, sign Mbappe or Hazard or Bale and just don't let the rags and scousers get closer.

We have to sign players that fit into our way of playing and will improve the squad without destroying the team spirit that has been developed. Jorginho and Mahrez should hopefully do that.

It's not just about signing bigger names (look at how that's worked out for the rags). Besides Mbappe, Hazard and Bale may very well not be for sale.

Personally I'd rather have Mahrez and Jorginho anyway and target Mbappe if he does become available.

 

[Neville Kneville]

We've come to a point where fernandinho's passing ability is being underrated while on the other side jorginho's defensive ability is being underrated aswel. Fernandinho might not be as good of a press resistant passer as jorginho and his biggest weakness by far is his decision making in passing when his back is facing the opposition goal and he's asked to pass from the back in the build-up phase from defence. That weakness in his game has always stood out in games against top quality teams that are not afraid to press from the front. Thinking liverpool away/napoli games and though its rarely an issue as 90% of the opposition the team face put 10 men behind the ball and rarely apply pressure, he tends to get exposed in that area of his game when he's put under pressure against the better teams especially when he's facing towards the goal. With that said, while jorginho might be better in that side of the game there's not much between them when it comes to actual passing ability in build-up play when they both have the time to pick a pass. Fernandinho can pick a pass with the best of them in his position in the build-up phase of an attack. His weakness in passing decision-making when pressure is applied on him from the back does not take that away and is clouding many on his actual passing ability. Truth be told he's a box-to-box midfielder turned into an anchor man and therefore his strength has always been work-rate, passing in the transitional phase of an attack and tackling. Therefore not particularly the busquets type who has incredible positional awareness and anticipation as well as passing ability/composure in all facets of the game.

As for jorginho, while he may not have the work-rate and energy of fernandinho or the positional awareness of a busquets, his actual anticipation of play and tackling is just as good as ferns. Therefore he can do as good a job as fernandinho in quickly applying pressure to win the ball back in the opposition third to maintain control like pep requires in this system. The problem with him comes when the team is getting hit on the break, he will often struggle to recover quicker compared to fernandinho. But as far as tackling and applying pressure he is just as good. Both these players have their pros and cons but jorginho's pros is more in line with pep's requirement for the team and system compared to fernandinho's. I think the best way I can describe them is that in a game against a top opposition like chelsea where their game is more on the use of counters and such allow space, sit back and wait for the opportunity to break and are deadly in the transitional phase especially with their overlapping full-backs, I would use fernandinho both for his passing ability in building up attack as he's afforded more time but more importantly in his ability to read the game and recover quickly with his energy when the team is being hit on the break. Meanwhile in a game against Liverpool where ability to be composed in high-pressuring situations and build attacks from the back to both control the temp and expose space is more important, Jorginho would be perfect.The biggest thing against Klopps liverpool is composure on the ball rather than energy. A majority of their goals against Pep's city the past 2 seasons has been from a lack of composure from the back. So when it comes down to it there will be a place for both of these top players in this team.

I agree with most of that and I think they could both play when needed but the test will come when it actually happens imo.

It's great in theory that Jorginho can do this & that against certain teams, but as I've been warning for years regarding Kroos, it might not actually work, in practice, against the best pressing teams in the Prem or the more direct teams etc.

The result of the Liverpool game has masked how completely shite Kroos was, when pressed & how Real ended up mostly just booting the ball away, until Liverpool folded when Salah went off. Then all of a sudden, it's a different game, & Kroos can stroll around flicking the ball forward, rather than passing it too hard, backwards & sideways like a shitter Jordan Henderson as he did for the first half hour. Stick Kroos in our midfield at Anfield, with Stones etc overhitting or underhitting passes back to him & going missing defensively, the referee allowing every foul, whilst giving evey challenge he makes, as a foul, & it's ten times harder. That's the real world Fernandinho has been operating in, for the last few seasons in those games.

It's all well to assume that Jorginho will take that in his stride, & play his usual controlled game, but there is no guarantee he will.

Imo, this has never been a 'one player' problem. The defenders cave in, KDB Silva etc start picking all the wrong passes, the ball keeps coming back & that's often where Fernandinho struggles, rather than him instigating it.

If all the team played as they can, I recon we would beat Liverpool comfortably 9 times out of 10, with Fernandinho, Jorginho or even Gundogan playing there.

We play badly as a team, is why we lose, imo.