Kalidou Koulibaly

ctid1894 said:
The same posters getting wildly excited about Koulibaly, are the same posters who were getting wildly excited about Maguire in the summer. There was a reason we didn't pursue our interest in Maguire and there's a reason we won't pay an equally outlandish fee for Koulibaly. If Napoli get desperate and drop the price significantly, then maybe it's worth a bit of a gamble.

Fernandinho isnt 6'4" and built like a 5 bed detached, in the same way long distance marathon runners aren't built like Anthony Joshua. The risk is far greater with injuries in part because of the size of him the older he gets. Although like @domalino has very rightly pointed out, Koulibaly has a very good injury record, so far.

There's a huge difference in building short term success before UEFA's cartel could build the FFP bridges and now. Remember when we last signed a 29 year old, no me either. Walker is the closest in recent years and he hasn't turned out too badly, so it's not a cut and dried debate but for the same reasons we seemingly pulled out of the Maguire pursuit, I think we'll do the same with Koulibaly. Unless De Laurentiis gets desperate which could happen considering current market conditions, let's hope so.
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Koulibaly is 6ft 1
 
Didn’t look terribly assured against Sassuolo last night. Napoli defence was all over the shop and saved only by the opponent’s determination to stray offside; 4 goals chopped off for narrow offsides.
 
Well as one of the posters mentioned Koulibaly latest exploits should not be taken into account as Napoli is playing dog shit. They did win the game though. The commentators clearly said Napoli has nothing to play for as they are in the Europa league after winning the Copa Italia. Plus post Covid players are clearly rusty.

Their CL game is something i have an eye on if we have not actually secured his signing by then!
 
ctid1894 said:
The same posters getting wildly excited about Koulibaly, are the same posters who were getting wildly excited about Maguire in the summer. There was a reason we didn't pursue our interest in Maguire and there's a reason we won't pay an equally outlandish fee for Koulibaly. If Napoli get desperate and drop the price significantly, then maybe it's worth a bit of a gamble.

Fernandinho isnt 6'4" and built like a 5 bed detached, in the same way long distance marathon runners aren't built like Anthony Joshua. The risk is far greater with injuries in part because of the size of him the older he gets. Although like @domalino has very rightly pointed out, Koulibaly has a very good injury record, so far.

There's a huge difference in building short term success before UEFA's cartel could build the FFP bridges and now. Remember when we last signed a 29 year old, no me either. Walker is the closest in recent years and he hasn't turned out too badly, so it's not a cut and dried debate but for the same reasons we seemingly pulled out of the Maguire pursuit, I think we'll do the same with Koulibaly. Unless De Laurentiis gets desperate which could happen considering current market conditions, let's hope so.
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So taking all that into account if the club buy him for £68 mill having considered all that and having a far better idea than any of us on our finances . Are they making an informed right decision or wrong ?
 
blueparrot said:
So taking all that into account if the club buy him for £68 mill having considered all that and having a far better idea than any of us on our finances . Are they making an informed right decision or wrong ?
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Who said I've got a better idea than anyone else on finances because it's certainly not me. The evidence is overwhelming that we pull out of transfers if we don't feel like it's value for money (Sanchez, Maguire, Fred, Van Dijk), the evidence is overwhelming that we generally go for younger players to protect ourselves in the transfer market (Mahrez and Walker at 27/28 being the oldest in recent years however it's few and far between), the evidence is overwhelming that we don't panic buy and we would rather go without signing anyone (Jorginho, Maguire) if we don't feel the deal suits us perfectly.

As for the £68m question, personally I'd walk away. Whatever we can claw back on Stones and Otamendi combined if we decide to sell both, I'd be happy to spend on Koulibaly. I think we'd be lucky to get £40-45m for the pair in the current market. Stones could still come good, it's looking increasingly less likely but I wouldn't write him off completely just yet, I'd be happy to give him another year to see if he can turn it around injuries and mentality wise.
 
ctid1894 said:
Who said I've got a better idea than anyone else on finances because it's certainly not me. The evidence is overwhelming that we pull out of transfers if we don't feel like it's value for money (Sanchez, Maguire, Fred, Van Dijk), the evidence is overwhelming that we generally go for younger players to protect ourselves in the transfer market (Mahrez and Walker at 27/28 being the oldest in recent years however it's few and far between), the evidence is overwhelming that we don't panic buy and we would rather go without signing anyone (Jorginho, Maguire) if we don't feel the deal suits us perfectly.

As for the £68m question, personally I'd walk away. Whatever we can claw back on Stones and Otamendi combined if we decide to sell both, I'd be happy to spend on Koulibaly. I think we'd be lucky to get £40-45m for the pair in the current market. Stones could still come good, it's looking increasingly less likely but I wouldn't write him off completely just yet, I'd be happy to give him another year to see if he can turn it around injuries and mentality wise.
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Because you aren't saying Koulibaly yes or no based on your opinion on whether he makes us better. You are putting a financial value on it. For me he makes us better that's it. it's all that matters to me. If the club agree it makes us better I'll leave it to them to put a value on it and decide if it's affordable.
It isn't my problem and I'm in no position to have an opinion on our financial position on it. As you point out the evidence is overwhelming we won't pay over their value whatever the club decide that is.
 
ctid1894 said:
Who said I've got a better idea than anyone else on finances because it's certainly not me. The evidence is overwhelming that we pull out of transfers if we don't feel like it's value for money (Sanchez, Maguire, Fred, Van Dijk), the evidence is overwhelming that we generally go for younger players to protect ourselves in the transfer market (Mahrez and Walker at 27/28 being the oldest in recent years however it's few and far between), the evidence is overwhelming that we don't panic buy and we would rather go without signing anyone (Jorginho, Maguire) if we don't feel the deal suits us perfectly.

As for the £68m question, personally I'd walk away. Whatever we can claw back on Stones and Otamendi combined if we decide to sell both, I'd be happy to spend on Koulibaly. I think we'd be lucky to get £40-45m for the pair in the current market. Stones could still come good, it's looking increasingly less likely but I wouldn't write him off completely just yet, I'd be happy to give him another year to see if he can turn it around injuries and mentality wise.
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I would keep Stones but don't want to be in a position where we have to trust him.
 
BlueindianNewcity said:
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Good montage. However, those clips show Napoli sitting deep, so it’s harder to ascertain how comfortable he is when turned higher up the park. His longer cross field passes went awry with both feet, and Juve set up against and pressed him in such a way that he had to thread a needle to get it forward, which he couldn’t do, or pass safely left, which he opted to do repeatedly.

I don’t doubt his defensive qualities, phenomenal strength, but he’s going to have to work on bringing the ball higher up the park and threading passes through. That’s the aspect of Stones’s game that has been improving, but imposing himself physically has not.
 
Gabriel said:
Good montage. However, those clips show Napoli sitting deep, so it’s harder to ascertain how comfortable he is when turned higher up the park. His longer cross field passes went awry with both feet, and Juve set up against and pressed him in such a way that he had to thread a needle to get it forward, which he couldn’t do, or pass safely left, which he opted to do repeatedly.

I don’t doubt his defensive qualities, phenomenal strength, but he’s going to have to work on bringing the ball higher up the park and threading passes through. That’s the aspect of Stones’s game that has been improving, but imposing himself physically has not.
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Good point - from those clips he seemed to take too many touches which is fine in the Italian league but I wonder how he would do when pressed at pace in the PL - My main criticism of Otamendi is he slows our possession then often tries passes that gives the ball away plus his diving in. Koulibaly hopefully would improve but maybe his signing is a bit more of a risk than we are thinking.
 
Neville Kneville said:
I would keep Stones but don't want to be in a position where we have to trust him.
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I'm far more relaxed with Stones because I trust Garcia and I would happily put faith in Adaradiayo and Harwood-Bellis as well. If all else fails we have Fernandinho, Rodri and Walker as fallback options and another transfer window in January, if the very worst happens and 5 players all fuck up their chances which I just don't see happening.
 
ctid1894 said:
I'm far more relaxed with Stones because I trust Garcia and I would happily put faith in Adaradiayo and Harwood-Bellis as well. If all else fails we have Fernandinho, Rodri and Walker as fallback options and another transfer window in January, if the very worst happens and 5 players all fuck up their chances which I just don't see happening.
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But an injury to Laporte leaves us in the exact same position as this season, if not Kouliibaly it has to be somebody, the fact Koulibaly is two footed is an added plus, he can partner or replace on the left if Laporte is out. Whatever happens we can’t risk being left to make do like this season.
 
blueparrot said:
Because you aren't saying Koulibaly yes or no based on your opinion on whether he makes us better. You are putting a financial value on it. For me he makes us better that's it. it's all that matters to me. If the club agree it makes us better I'll leave it to them to put a value on it and decide if it's affordable.
It isn't my problem and I'm in no position to have an opinion on our financial position on it. As you point out the evidence is overwhelming we won't pay over their value whatever the club decide that is.
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The biggest positive change in our defending next season will be the increase the intensity of our press, it'll alleviate the pressure the CB's are currently put under as we've seen in previous seasons.

This season has been a bit of a write-off in that respect because of the slowing down of Silva (as much as I love him), the introduction of Rodri (who I think will be excellent next season) and the over reliance on Sterling and Mahrez to play every game because we had no true alternatives. Laporte's injury was also a huge loss which we hope will not happen again next season, it would be extremely unfortunate if it did.

Foden, Bernardo and Torres all being closer to the team will make a huge difference in our defensive capabilities, simply by improving our press.
blueparrot said:
But an injury to Laporte leaves us in the exact same position as this season, if not Kouliibaly it has to be somebody, the fact Koulibaly is two footed is an added plus, he can partner or replace on the left if Laporte is out. Whatever happens we can’t risk being left to make do like this season.
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Ake, I think at £35m quoted it's far more sensible than Koulibaly and gives us more options (3 CB's and also ability to play LB and DM in emergencies).

I don't agree Koulibaly is two footed either, he can use his weaker foot just like Ederson can but you wouldn't want him to have to rely on it.
 
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