KEEP SAFE: 'Make rape legal' group plan events in Shambles Square & worldwide

Yes it is. In fact, again, that is literally the definition of a justice system. And again, what you're describing is literally fascism - that we lock up pretty much anybody and if the innocent get locked up then shit out of luck for them.

You understand this yes? That you've gone so far across the liberal spectrum that you've ended up at authoritarianism?
Which is exactly how an uber liberal stance always pans out. It grows out of a perceived non acceptance of a view of the world
as institutionally racist, grotesquely unfair, and prejudiced massively against people whom they assume are totally disenfranchised.
Innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone that can be adjusted to ensure that their own views trump natural law process,
so, as there are apparently not enough rape convictions, men should accept the fact that an innocent few of them is a fair price
to pay as long as the conviction rate figures improve.
 
So if what you say is true why is every man on this thread not in jail? Why because we aren't rapists and you are talking nonsense
By definition we are. A drunk woman cannot consent to sex. Have you ever slept with a drunk woman?

I'm not even close to talking nonsense.
 
Go and read some of their stuff all this is about 1% of their stuff , the group is about making men men and women women, it has hard views on far more than just this and suggests the Law defining many things for men and women. This whole thing has been stupidly sensationalist and given this rump attention they don't merit.
If they'd been able to go ahead with their rally then maybe I'd have heard of some of their other stuff then eh?

So long as they were not inciting hatred or violence then of course they should have been able to go ahead.

Your last sentence is amusing given you've sensationalised it more than anyone.
 
By definition we are. A drunk woman cannot consent to sex. Have you ever slept with a drunk woman?

I'm not even close to talking nonsense.
So if this is such a problem and such a threat to you and me why has it made Jack difference tO our lives. It also shows a deep misunderstanding of just what proof the police, the cps and juries need to convict as well.

But feel free to hand yourself in to the police and do a ten year stretch
 
If they'd been able to go ahead with their rally then maybe I'd have heard of some of their other stuff then eh?

So long as they were not inciting hatred or violence then of course they should have been able to go ahead.

Your last sentence is amusing given you've sensationalised it more than anyone.
I would have let them go ahead, like some of the Islamic nutters it EDL if they are silenced their idiocy is ignored they never wanted to go ahead bough if they did they would not have done it so publicly and sought so much attention. On this one they were the winners
 
So if this is such a problem and such a threat to you and me why has it made Jack difference tO our lives. It also shows a deep misunderstanding of just what proof the police, the cps and juries need to convict as well.

But feel free to hand yourself in to the police and do a ten year stretch
Need three witnesses out here so I'm cushty.

And it's not (been) a problem as for a start, it's a new guidance since last year whereby men must prove sober consent. I'd have thought you knew that already, given how knowledgable you try and appear on this subject.
 
Need three witnesses out here so I'm cushty.

And it's not (been) a problem as for a start, it's a new guidance since last year whereby men must prove sober consent. I'd have thought you knew that already, given how knowledgable you try and appear on this subject.
I think you'll find the stories about this were about what the police should do and were not advice to judges or juries or laws of the land and were designed to actually mean some investigation would take place as opposed to things being immediately dismissed due to no hard evidence. So this was police procedure as I understand it and not anything to do with the law, sentencing it jury verdict. At most it would achieve a few more trials
 
Need three witnesses out here so I'm cushty.

And it's not (been) a problem as for a start, it's a new guidance since last year whereby men must prove sober consent. I'd have thought you knew that already, given how knowledgable you try and appear on this subject.
I am sure also you will find three witnesses from this forum who will testify to your admission of guilt if you feel strongly
 
I think you'll find the stories about this were about what the police should do and were not advice to judges or juries or laws of the land and were designed to actually mean some investigation would take place as opposed to things being immediately dismissed due to no hard evidence. So this was police procedure as I understand it and not anything to do with the law, sentencing it jury verdict. At most it would achieve a few more trials
Oh right, so most men I know aren't necessarily rapists, but they should be investigated for being rapists.

Can you honestly say you've never been drunk and had a sexual liaison with a drunk woman?
 
How many of your friends have been reported to the police for rape?? I guess if most have you must hang around with very different people to most of us? If they haven't been reported then how would advice on how police should handle complaints of rape be relevant to them?

Why is your opinion of women so warped that you think they are running around making false accusations of rape every time they sleep with someone drunk?
 
How many of your friends have been reported to the police for rape?? I guess if most have you must hang around with very different people to most of us? If they haven't been reported then how would advice on how police should handle complaints of rape be relevant to them?
Well seeing as the new guidance was only issued last June it is early days isn't it.

You didn't answer my question either did you.

Go on, admit it, you're a rapist.
 
Well seeing as the new guidance was only issued last June it is early days isn't it.

You didn't answer my question either did you.

Go on, admit it, you're a rapist.

I don't subscribe to your nonsense and I realise the difference between an investigation by the police after an accusation and some imaginary fantasy world where this is the same thing as a conviction by a jury which is what would make me a rapist. I don't think it's a particularly funny subject to make silly jokes about.
 
I don't subscribe to your nonsense and I realise the difference between an investigation by the police after an accusation and some imaginary fantasy world where this is the same thing as a conviction by a jury which is what would make me a rapist. I don't think it's a particularly funny subject to make silly jokes about.
It's not even remotely a joke. According to the law, a drunk woman cannot give consent and given you can't categorically state you've not had a drunken sexual episode then it's fair to say you could have been investigated and convicted had you been unfortunate enough to have done so in the last six months in the UK.
 
Oh right, so most men I know aren't necessarily rapists, but they should be investigated for being rapists.

Can you honestly say you've never been drunk and had a sexual liaison with a drunk woman?
I can honestly say that I'm fucking glad I was drunk after some of the munters I've woken up with.
 
It's not even remotely a joke. According to the law, a drunk woman cannot give consent and given you can't categorically state you've not had a drunken sexual episode then it's fair to say you could have been investigated and convicted had you been unfortunate enough to have done so in the last six months in the UK.
You haven't heard of courts or juries have you?
I guess in your world I could have been accused of most crimes and convicted because the world is full of people out to get me!

You sound a bit like the male equivalent of extreme feminist nutters who think all men want to rape them - all women want to accuse you !
 
You haven't heard of courts or juries have you?
I guess in your world I could have been accused of most crimes and convicted because the world is full of people out to get me!

You sound a bit like the male equivalent of extreme feminist nutters who think all men want to rape them - all women want to accuse you !

Even at the accusing stage, the woman has the power to destroy a man's life though.

Take the fairly recent case of the Durham university student who was eventually found not guilty for rape.

The 'victim' had her identity protected but the bloke was splashed across the tabloid front pages and kicked out of uni. His life is ruined because he was falsely accused of rape.

I just think that the inference of consent is apparently very easy to misunderstand. You can leave a club with a girl, take her home and end up in bed and then in the morning she can argue in a court that she didn't remember saying yes.
 
You haven't heard of courts or juries have you?
I guess in your world I could have been accused of most crimes and convicted because the world is full of people out to get me!

You sound a bit like the male equivalent of extreme feminist nutters who think all men want to rape them - all women want to accuse you !
It's not a question of being convicted of crimes you didn't commit is it. You hadn't done those crimes.

However, if you slept with a drunk woman now, you'd have committed a crime whether the woman decided to report you or not.

There is no consent if the woman is drunk.

If fairly fucking simple, even for you.
 
The original story was about Roosh V and a load of guys with extremely dangerous attitudes towards women congregating in Manchester. I agree it's reductive and sensationalist to define them as a "pro rape" group, but the fact remains that they hold women in total contempt, they swap tips on methods of harassing women, want to see rape made legal and advocate forced marriage. Theyre also completely fucking stupid as they think men should be able to sleep with whoever they want but think women who sleep around are disgusting sluts (the maths behind that worldview simply dont add up). Those of us talking about wives, daughters, mothers etc are overlooking that fact some of the guys that show up at these meetings see their own daughters as a problem because they want a good job when they finish school and are there to seek advice on how best to control them. It's really unpleasant and I dont know why a handful of people have posted in here without really addressing that and instead started ranting about feminism (which there is nothing wrong with) and false rape accusations.

I'm a woman (sorry if my name is misleading but it's an old in-joke as per a lot of the names in here). Just to clarify, I (along with every single person I know) think false rape accusations are disgusting. It's horrific some guys worry that they might find themselves in that situation somehow. It's also horrific though that every single time I go out with my female friends, the first thing we do when we get home is text each other to confirm "we got home ok". It's horrific that every single woman I know has been groped or assaulted at some stage or another (once at city actually). It's horrific that when I walk down the street at night and hear someone behind me, I assess my surroundings to see if there's anybody else around in screaming distance as it's unlikely they're BOTH going to be rapists. It's horrific that a group of guys are getting together to talk about why its ok to harass women and why women are to blame for all of the problems in their life, in OUR city. I just don't get why a small number of guys adopt a really defensive position when confronted with that. Unless you share their views nobody is attacking you.

The consequence of false rape claims are also hugely damaging to women too. Theyre a big part of the reason such a high proportion of actual rape victims are scared to come forward. If there is a meeting in Manchester where a load of women are going to talk how wonderful false rape claims are then we should have a thread on that and I'll be the first one to start laying into them. I wont be bringing Roosh V into the argument though as I wont need to. That's why I find it a bit gutting that a thread discussing Roosh V has descended into a discussion on false rape claims. You'd kind of hope itd be enough for everyone say what a shame it is that these idiots feel that way.

The real irony in all of this is that a lot of lads that are being swept in the Roosh V movement are the ones feeling increasingly powerless and overlooked in modern society. They're angry young men and they're blaming women for their situation when in fact it's other men, the ruling elite, who are chipping away at their liberties, their employment rights and leaving them with very little to look forward to.
 
Even at the accusing stage, the woman has the power to destroy a man's life though.

Take the fairly recent case of the Durham university student who was eventually found not guilty for rape.

The 'victim' had her identity protected but the bloke was splashed across the tabloid front pages and kicked out of uni. His life is ruined because he was falsely accused of rape.

I just think that the inference of consent is apparently very easy to misunderstand. You can leave a club with a girl, take her home and end up in bed and then in the morning she can argue in a court that she didn't remember saying yes.
A falsely accused person is a victim the same way as a rape victim is a victim and both can have their lives ruined. It is why a person doing a false accusation should face the consequences of the law.
The latter part in some cases could be true as it is true an actual rapist can argue consent is given when it wasn't. That is what the justice system is there to judge on.
You can't not prosecute and legislate on any crime just because there are nutters out there who will make false accusations whatever the crime.
If new police actions significantly change the numbers of courses going to court then either there will be a dramatic change in not guilty verdicts or more people will be put away, miscarriages of justice increase and the law will change again as politicians and the legal system try to get the balance right.
 
The original story was about Roosh V and a load of guys with extremely dangerous attitudes towards women congregating in Manchester. I agree it's reductive and sensationalist to define them as a "pro rape" group, but the fact remains that they hold women in total contempt, they swap tips on methods of harassing women, want to see rape made legal and advocate forced marriage. Theyre also completely fucking stupid as they think men should be able to sleep with whoever they want but think women who sleep around are disgusting sluts (the maths behind that worldview simply dont add up). Those of us talking about wives, daughters, mothers etc are overlooking that fact some of the guys that show up at these meetings see their own daughters as a problem because they want a good job when they finish school and are there to seek advice on how best to control them. It's really unpleasant and I dont know why a handful of people have posted in here without really addressing that and instead started ranting about feminism (which there is nothing wrong with) and false rape accusations.

I'm a woman (sorry if my name is misleading but it's an old in-joke as per a lot of the names in here). Just to clarify, I (along with every single person I know) think false rape accusations are disgusting. It's horrific some guys worry that they might find themselves in that situation somehow. It's also horrific though that every single time I go out with my female friends, the first thing we do when we get home is text each other to confirm "we got home ok". It's horrific that every single woman I know has been groped or assaulted at some stage or another (once at city actually). It's horrific that when I walk down the street at night and hear someone behind me, I assess my surroundings to see if there's anybody else around in screaming distance as it's unlikely they're BOTH going to be rapists. It's horrific that a group of guys are getting together to talk about why its ok to harass women and why women are to blame for all of the problems in their life, in OUR city. I just don't get why a small number of guys adopt a really defensive position when confronted with that. Unless you share their views nobody is attacking you.

The consequence of false rape claims are also hugely damaging to women too. Theyre a big part of the reason such a high proportion of actual rape victims are scared to come forward. If there is a meeting in Manchester where a load of women are going to talk how wonderful false rape claims are then we should have a thread on that and I'll be the first one to start laying into them. I wont be bringing Roosh V into the argument though as I wont need to. That's why I find it a bit gutting that a thread discussing Roosh V has descended into a discussion on false rape claims. You'd kind of hope itd be enough for everyone say what a shame it is that these idiots feel that way.

The real irony in all of this is that a lot of lads that are being swept in the Roosh V movement are the ones feeling increasingly powerless and overlooked in modern society. They're angry young men and they're blaming women for their situation when in fact it's other men, the ruling elite, who are chipping away at their liberties, their employment rights and leaving them with very little to look forward to.
I agree with, and empathise with, everything you've said here.
Such a pity about the last paragraph, that's unmitigated tosh.
 

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