Keir Starmer

[Ban-jani]

This is a more official source as it is an official body, it refers to areas as countries and regions. I'm sure you can appreciate why for political reasons the nations aren't referred to as regions. I seem to recall you have identified as a unionist, I'm not sure why you would argue something that undermines your unionism and has the habit of pissing off people in the smaller nations of for no gain.

The context of regionalisation you are referring to no longer exists as these regional areas or constituencies for the EU don't exist anymore. The main use of the English regions is now for statistics.

GDP, UK regions and countries - Office for National Statistics

Quarterly economic activity within the countries of the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) and the nine English regions (North East, North West, Yorkshire and The Humber, East Midlands, West Midlands, East of England, London, South East, and South West).

www.ons.gov.uk

Sometimes you try and put meaning into what I am saying that just isn’t there. As if I’m not recognising Scotland as a historical country with its own culture and politics.

It’s not an insult, England by the same token is just a load of regions that are equally apart of the UK as Scotland is. England hasn’t been a proper country since not long after the Union of Crowns.

I think you and @Saddleworth2 are viewing this as some big put down on Scotland, it really isn’t, it is possible that England, Scotland, Wales and NI can be both countries in some regard, in their own right but also regions of the UK, the 1992 Maastricht Treaty practically stated this and yes we have left the EU and this now may be redundant in terms of how we operate in the EU but geographically these “regions” still exist. England too is just a series of regions, only population size made them carve it up, which gives it less of an identity if anything.

I am a unionist, and recently I think the only future for the UK is less devolution and closer political ties, not separation. Although that’s a little more complex with NI and an entirely different animal.

 

[hilts]

You see thats my point. Scotlands need for immigration is different to Englands.

Probably best attracting people then, Scotland is a great country in the main, The powers that be need to pull their fingers out.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Sometimes you try and put meaning into what I am saying that just isn’t there. As if I’m not recognising Scotland as a historical country with its own culture and politics.

It’s not an insult, England by the same token is just a load of regions that are equally apart of the UK as Scotland is. England hasn’t been a proper country since not long after the Union of Crowns.

I think you and @Saddleworth2 are viewing this as some big put down on Scotland, it really isn’t, it is possible that England, Scotland, Wales and NI can be both countries in some regard, in their own right but also regions of the UK, the 1992 Maastricht Treaty practically stated this and yes we have left the EU and this now may be redundant in terms of how we operate in the EU but geographically these “regions” still exist. England too is just a series of regions, only population size made them carve it up, which gives it less of an identity if anything.

I am a unionist, and recently I think the only future for the UK is less devolution and closer political ties, not separation. Although that’s a little more complex with NI and an entirely different animal.

I didn't think that was your intention but there has been previous connotations to that use of region to refer to the nations betrays a particular political point of view. It is tied up in politics and identity, and some are particularly sensitive to it. If it's a region in the context of statistical geography I don't think anybody really cares, but some will misread what you are saying and/or impose a belief on you if you go further than that. As statistical regions Scotland and NE/SW are equivalent in that context but not in the case of administration where one has it's own government and the regions do not.

Similar reason why Welsh don't like being called a Principality.

 

[Ban-jani]

I didn't think that was your intention but there has been previous connotations to that use of region to refer to the nations betrays a particular political point of view. It is tied up in politics and identity, and some are particularly sensitive to it. If it's a region in the context of statistical geography I don't think anybody really cares, but some will misread what you are saying and/or impose a belief on you if you go further than that. As statistical regions Scotland and NE/SW are equivalent in that context but not in the case of administration where one has it's own government and the regions do not.

Similar reason why Welsh don't like being called a Principality.

I don’t disagree any of that to be honest.

There’s an argument from many English people that we should have our own devolved parliament(s), maybe one for the north and south and go down the devo route further, personally I think it’s a big mistake and will only add to the break up of the Union. The best thing is to reverse devolution for me and properly act as one nation of Britain, whilst trying to do the same but ensuring we are adhering to the sensibilities that are required in NI.

 

[Saddleworth2]

There’s nothing to fall out over, it’s not an insult, it’s just a fact of decades of being in the EU and it still is a region, just as Wales and NI are, with England being too many people so they divided it up.

It’s like falling out over it raining in Manchester, it just is.

I don’t disagree any of that to be honest.

There’s an argument from many English people that we should have our own devolved parliament(s), maybe one for the north and south and go down the devo route further, personally I think it’s a big mistake and will only add to the break up of the Union. The best thing is to reverse devolution for me and properly act as one nation of Britain, whilst trying to do the same but ensuring we are adhering to the sensibilities that are required in NI.

But for that you need a truly representative government in Westminster.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

But for that you need a truly representative government in Westminster.

Proportional Representation as a minimum. Otherwise the appeal/need for this becomes ever greater:

Keir Starmer urged to back radical constitutional reform for UK

Labour report calls for federal state, Lords replaced by elected senate and more powers for regions and devolved nations

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ban-jani]

But for that you need a truly representative government in Westminster.

And that’s entirely subjective to what it would/should look like.

 

[Rascal]

Proportional Representation as a minimum. Otherwise the appeal/need for this becomes ever greater:

Keir Starmer urged to back radical constitutional reform for UK

Labour report calls for federal state, Lords replaced by elected senate and more powers for regions and devolved nations

www.theguardian.com

Keith get on it, you might win me over.

We should long have gone down that road, too much power in the UK is based in London and the rest of the 4 nations are not like London. Too much political capital has been spent on ensuring the "city" is ok to the detriment of the rest of the UK and that has to change.

London has become remote from the rest of the UK and I see from my involvement with Heath Innovation Manchester how we can target local issues better than from a centralised command, because Manchester is different to London and other cities, counties are too and they have been neglected.

 

[urban genie]

When you see 'we' who do you mean, because Scotland does indeed need immigration and lots of it.

Blair




Brown




Major























Cameron/May












Thatcher





I ran out of room for Johnson....

Brown - could jointly with blair NL only worked because of their partnership

Blair - ditto as above both actually did some good for normal folk

Major - best of a bad bunch from a party of self interest

May - actually acted like and seemed to want to be a politician though still her HO time makes her typically tory

Cameron - opportunist and shithouse with little interest in the country bar his own self.

Johnson - fucking chancer becoming PM was just a list of things to do to get one up on his eton chums and because he thinks he deserves it.

Thatcher - evil witch with a warped ideology, destroyed society and decimated a large number of communities sometimes out of spite and some have still not recovered.


Lived though all of them, been affected by all

 

[urban genie]

Proportional Representation as a minimum. Otherwise the appeal/need for this becomes ever greater:

Keir Starmer urged to back radical constitutional reform for UK

Labour report calls for federal state, Lords replaced by elected senate and more powers for regions and devolved nations

www.theguardian.com

Said on here many times the kingdom should be become a federation with an English parliament made represented regionally

The regions of England should all have a respresentative as well as Scottish, Welsh and NI on a UK Council of government that deals with issues of a interbational nature.

If starmer goes down the line of the report, I would be more than willing to back his stance.