Lance Armstrong

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Just finished watching the ESPN 30 for 30. What a ****.

Top tosspot of a bloke

 

[Don Karleone]

Top tosspot of a bloke

I went into it not knowing much about him or what happened. He's sorry that he got caught, nothing else.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Cycling fan here.

Armstrong is held up as this great fraud and cheat.

I’m not condoning cheating at all, but his ‘crimes’ need to be put into context. In his era virtually every rider - certainly everyone at the top top level - was on EPO. With the drugs it was a level playing field and he was competing against other people doing the same thing.

If nobody was on EPO, including him, he’d still have won those races. Regardless of the doping he was by far the best rider of that era. He was the Messi/Ronaldo of cycling at that time.

The problem is he got way too cocky and fucked one too many people over. Landis had nothing to lose and so broke the silence, and there you go.

Armstrong is still pissed off that other people who were doing the same thing as him never got their medals taken off them etc, and he’s got a point tbh.

My feelings toward him are mixed.

 

[chesterbells]

If nobody was on EPO, including him, he’d still have won those races.

I’m happy to continue this conversation on over the next 23 days, but in short (as it’s late and I wanna get up early and do my own ride tomorrow before settling down to watch all of Stage 1), how can anyone ever know this?

All I’ve ever read on the man makes clear his bullying and intimidation to back up his ruthlessness in cheating, was different level, and that’s not something he deserves any credit for.
His blatancy in not only his public denials, but him then going after anyone who raised questions, his enforcement of the omertà, and arguably worst of all, his use of his cancer charity to almost dare/shame anyone who questioned his narrative means that I’m not prepared to offer any kind of ‘balance’ where he’s concerned.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

I’m happy to continue this conversation on over the next 23 days, but in short (as it’s late and I wanna get up early and do my own ride tomorrow before settling down to watch all of Stage 1), how can anyone ever know this?

All I’ve ever read on the man makes clear his bullying and intimidation to back up his ruthlessness in cheating, was different level, and that’s not something he deserves any credit for.
His blatancy in not only his public denials, but him then going after anyone who raised questions, his enforcement of the omertà, and arguably worst of all, his use of his cancer charity to almost dare/shame anyone who questioned his narrative means that I’m not prepared to offer any kind of ‘balance’ where he’s concerned.

That’s completely fair enough and I’m not going to argue with you, lots of people feel the same way.

Obviously nobody can say with absolute certainty he would’ve won those races if everyone was clean, but it’s my view that he would. Which makes the whole thing even more tragic really.

He did do a lot of good, which is now sadly overlooked. He genuinely cared / cares about cancer patients and the fundraising efforts he did helped a lot of people.

Tbh the doping I accept. Everyone was at it. But the bullying and intimidation was another level and more unforgivable.

There is a lot of hypocrisy in cycling. Everyone hails Marco Pantani as this great legend, and he was on more drugs than Armstrong and Keith Moon put together. The guy died of a cocaine overdose! Though some allege it was a mafia hit, but that’s for another thread :)

 

[give it to gordon]

I think I might have posted something similar to what I am about to write earlier in the thread ( to lazy to check ;) )

I had skin cancer when I was 25 in 1985 I have a 6"×4" skin craft on the back of my knee. I was lucky I didnt need anymore treatment. But I lost all my muscle strength and structure and went down to just above 7 stone. There were concerns I might lose my leg at the early stages. If the skin craft didnt take in such an awkward position. Plus it was the first one carried out in that hospital. Carried out by a Army Surgeon, they to help show how to do !
I had typical footballers legs before. To build myself back up I went swimming building up to a mile at a time but became bored.

Than I found cycling, it didnt hurt my leg plus with the action of cycling my skin craft was protected from the sun.

I was soon going out every day increasing my mileage, join a club and with build back my muscles in the shape of cycling and only weight around 7 and half stone I loved the hills.

Than lance appeared on the scene someone who had had worst cancer than me, thought his way back to the top of cycling. My hero someone to look up.

I read his book " it's not about the bike" ( I think that's the title )
He was nearly at deaths door but got back on that bike.

He did so much for people with cancer , set up the Armstrong Foundation, I wore the yellow wrist band for years it never came of.

I find my thoughts of lance are very mixed , I hate him for lying, but I dont dislike him, he is a selfish bastard, I wouldnt have wanted to be in his team. But than I feel sorry for him.

He used his fame to help fight cancer how can I dislike someone who does that ?

Like I say my thoughts on lance Armstrong are very mixed. I can understand 100% why people hate him, I get that. He CHEATED. I get it. And i hate Armstrong for that. But for his cancer foundation I dont hate him for that.

I think sport needs to have clear guidelines on drug cheats. Some go to be football pundits or cycling pundits, some the sporting world turns it's back on them.

Seems for some people it's ok to cheat and still work in the press/media.

I guess it's how you respond to being caught some hold up their hands admit they are wrong and do the punishment. Some choose to climb over walls, turn of their phone and pretend their didnt know. ( Ferdinand) These cheats should never be allowed in the press/media..

After all this time and watching documentary about lance, I still dont know if I like him or hate him

 

[Bluesince1979]

Cycling fan here.

Armstrong is held up as this great fraud and cheat.

I’m not condoning cheating at all, but his ‘crimes’ need to be put into context. In his era virtually every rider - certainly everyone at the top top level - was on EPO. With the drugs it was a level playing field and he was competing against other people doing the same thing.

If nobody was on EPO, including him, he’d still have won those races. Regardless of the doping he was by far the best rider of that era. He was the Messi/Ronaldo of cycling at that time.

The problem is he got way too cocky and fucked one too many people over. Landis had nothing to lose and so broke the silence, and there you go.

Armstrong is still pissed off that other people who were doing the same thing as him never got their medals taken off them etc, and he’s got a point tbh.

My feelings toward him are mixed.

Nothing to disagree with there but i dont think he helped himself by lording himself as some super human.
if i was a cheating fucker id keep me noggin down

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

I think I might have posted something similar to what I am about to write earlier in the thread ( to lazy to check ;) )

I had skin cancer when I was 25 in 1985 I have a 6"×4" skin craft on the back of my knee. I was lucky I didnt need anymore treatment. But I lost all my muscle strength and structure and went down to just above 7 stone. There were concerns I might lose my leg at the early stages. If the skin craft didnt take in such an awkward position. Plus it was the first one carried out in that hospital. Carried out by a Army Surgeon, they to help show how to do !
I had typical footballers legs before. To build myself back up I went swimming building up to a mile at a time but became bored.

Than I found cycling, it didnt hurt my leg plus with the action of cycling my skin craft was protected from the sun.

I was soon going out every day increasing my mileage, join a club and with build back my muscles in the shape of cycling and only weight around 7 and half stone I loved the hills.

Than lance appeared on the scene someone who had had worst cancer than me, thought his way back to the top of cycling. My hero someone to look up.

I read his book " it's not about the bike" ( I think that's the title )
He was nearly at deaths door but got back on that bike.

He did so much for people with cancer , set up the Armstrong Foundation, I wore the yellow wrist band for years it never came of.

I find my thoughts of lance are very mixed , I hate him for lying, but I dont dislike him, he is a selfish bastard, I wouldnt have wanted to be in his team. But than I feel sorry for him.

He used his fame to help fight cancer how can I dislike someone who does that ?

Like I say my thoughts on lance Armstrong are very mixed. I can understand 100% why people hate him, I get that. He CHEATED. I get it. And i hate Armstrong for that. But for his cancer foundation I dont hate him for that.

I think sport needs to have clear guidelines on drug cheats. Some go to be football pundits or cycling pundits, some the sporting world turns it's back on them.

Seems for some people it's ok to cheat and still work in the press/media.

I guess it's how you respond to being caught some hold up their hands admit they are wrong and do the punishment. Some choose to climb over walls, turn of their phone and pretend their didnt know. ( Ferdinand) These cheats should never be allowed in the press/media..

After all this time and watching documentary about lance, I still dont know if I like him or hate him

Had a bit of a lump in my throat reading that mate.

Massive massive respect to you for fighting your way back from a life changing setback like that, not everyone has that kind of drive and determination. Chapeau to you.

 

[give it to gordon]

I’m happy to continue this conversation on over the next 23 days, but in short (as it’s late and I wanna get up early and do my own ride tomorrow before settling down to watch all of Stage 1), how can anyone ever know this?

All I’ve ever read on the man makes clear his bullying and intimidation to back up his ruthlessness in cheating, was different level, and that’s not something he deserves any credit for.
His blatancy in not only his public denials, but him then going after anyone who raised questions, his enforcement of the omertà, and arguably worst of all, his use of his cancer charity to almost dare/shame anyone who questioned his narrative means that I’m not prepared to offer any kind of ‘balance’ where he’s concerned.

Do I agree or disagree with you ! That's the problem with lance Armstrong.
Personally I would like to think Armstrong foundation was for one thing only to help people fight and over come cancer. But perhaps that's me just wishing that to be true.

 

[chesterbells]

That’s completely fair enough and I’m not going to argue with you, lots of people feel the same way.

Obviously nobody can say with absolute certainty he would’ve won those races if everyone was clean, but it’s my view that he would. Which makes the whole thing even more tragic really.

He did do a lot of good, which is now sadly overlooked. He genuinely cared / cares about cancer patients and the fundraising efforts he did helped a lot of people.

Tbh the doping I accept. Everyone was at it. But the bullying and intimidation was another level and more unforgivable.

There is a lot of hypocrisy in cycling. Everyone hails Marco Pantani as this great legend, and he was on more drugs than Armstrong and Keith Moon put together. The guy died of a cocaine overdose! Though some allege it was a mafia hit, but that’s for another thread :)

Yes, and in return I’d agree with much of that pal. To enjoy pro cycling involves a level of suspension of disbelief. I just have a bit of a trigger where LA is concerned.