Lescott [Merged]

[ToffeeAndy]

Adebayor was also out a lot, as was Fabregas. Eduardo and Rosicky missed the whole season. Van Persie, Clichy, Eboue, Walcott, Diaby, Sagna and Gallas all had injuries. Arsenal had tons of players out.

Ok fair enough I was looking at long term injuries to what I deemed "Key Players" rather the players who would be just deemed as 1st teamers.

I would still argue that out of all the players list Fabregas was still the only long term absentee that I would class as a Key Player but it looks like people on here wouldn't agree with that?

 

[ToffeeAndy]

I agree with a lot of your points - particulary regarding Jag. But you can`t say you would have finished higher IF. You finish where you finished in football all about squads and injuries for every team.

Fair do's i'll admit your right there.

 

[Uwe Rosler]

IF we played more like we did at goodison we could have finished higher :P

 

[svennis pennis]

Adebayor was also out a lot, as was Fabregas. Eduardo and Rosicky missed the whole season. Van Persie, Clichy, Eboue, Walcott, Diaby, Sagna and Gallas all had injuries. Arsenal had tons of players out.

Ok fair enough I was looking at long term injuries to what I deemed "Key Players" rather the players who would be just deemed as 1st teamers.

I would still argue that out of all the players list Fabregas was still the only long term absentee that I would class as a Key Player but it looks like people on here wouldn't agree with that?

Are you mad? All the players in bold walk into their first team, Eduardo is a truly brilliant player as well, Diaby just lacks consistency to be brilliant.

 

[ToffeeAndy]

Ok fair enough I was looking at long term injuries to what I deemed "Key Players" rather the players who would be just deemed as 1st teamers.

I would still argue that out of all the players list Fabregas was still the only long term absentee that I would class as a Key Player but it looks like people on here wouldn't agree with that?

Are you mad? All the players in bold walk into their first team, Eduardo is a truly brilliant player as well, Diaby just lacks consistency to be brilliant.

How many of the players you highlighted had long term injuries though?

 

[BringBackSwales]

Ok fair enough I was looking at long term injuries to what I deemed "Key Players" rather the players who would be just deemed as 1st teamers.

I would still argue that out of all the players list Fabregas was still the only long term absentee that I would class as a Key Player but it looks like people on here wouldn't agree with that?

Are you mad? All the players in bold walk into their first team, Eduardo is a truly brilliant player as well, Diaby just lacks consistency to be brilliant.

that's just your opinion, not fact, so do not come on here talking like that, be gone back to your arse forum

 

[svennis pennis]

Are you mad? All the players in bold walk into their first team, Eduardo is a truly brilliant player as well, Diaby just lacks consistency to be brilliant.

that's just your opinion, not fact, so do not come on here talking like that, be gone back to your arse forum

Ok Mr 17 days. ;)

I happen to watch a lot of Arsenal as my best mate is a regular at the Emirates. All those players highlighted are first teamers and were all noticeable from their starting line up throughout the season, we only have to look at the team they fielded when we hammered them.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes potential is one thing and fulfilling that is another, however he seems to have the temperament to be able to do this along with the natural ability.

I disagree in part with what you say and agree in some parts too. It would be very difficult to consistently finish in the top 4 without significant investment, however its not impossible to finish in the top 4 without (as we've shown) and certainly not impossible to finish in the top 6 season after season with the odd finish in the top 4.

One top four finish, in a very strange season, does not mean you will finish top six season after season, with the odd top four finish. It means you had a lucky season, but realistically, top six is your best bet. Add to that the fact that Spurs, Sunderland, and Villa will all be investing to a much greater extent than yourselves...the league is getting tougher, and clubs are progressing, whereas Everton are standing still.

You mention Arsenal. We finished 12 (or was it 9) points behind them last season. Your telling me that without losing Arteta for half the season, and Yakubu for almost all of it, we wouldn't have got those extra 12 points? I'd disagree massively! To finish only 12 point behind them without having a recognised striker for large parts shows just how close we are to them. You just dont want to see it as were not as fashionable as mega bucks City now.

That's just nonsensical. You are a world away from Arsenal, who by the way had a raft of long term injuries last season...you massively overachieved, whilst clubs like ourselves and Spurs massively underachieved. The ifs and buts of last season are for the most part irrelevant when you consider where you finished.

Selling our best players isn't a good model for progession admitedly... however selling a very good player for stupid money and probably double his real value is good business... investing that money in to an equally good player, or one with potential to be better, and then using the spare cash to strenghten other areas is a good model. Make no mistake we're taking you to the cleaners over Lescott, we wouldn't sell unless the money benefitted us more then you.

Your presuming moyes wouldn't see more then half of the money? How the hell do you know this? Stick to the facts mate, you dont know this your just adding your own (incorrect) speculative comments as filler to your argument.

Of course the model works if you want to stay behind the big four, and compete with the best of the rest. But frankly, that's not what City are looking at doing, so I don't quite see what relevance that has. I've pointed out several times why i see Everton as going backwards next season. Just an opinion, but one based on the key factor that clubs around you will strengthen whilst you were struggle to do so...

As for Moyes seeing half the money. Well, again, if you understand how clubs like yourselves, and us a few years back, work, then you will accept that it's unlikely Moyes will see all the money from any sale of Lescott.

On a side note. I see you feel quite smug about charging over the odds for a player like Lescott. Well, clubs have been doing it in the premiership for years. You pay a premium for buying in the premiership. But it effects the market as a whole, not just the buying club. You may get 25 million for Lescott, but then every club in Europe will know you got that, and will charge you for their players accordingly...

 

[ToffeeAndy]

Yes potential is one thing and fulfilling that is another, however he seems to have the temperament to be able to do this along with the natural ability.

I disagree in part with what you say and agree in some parts too. It would be very difficult to consistently finish in the top 4 without significant investment, however its not impossible to finish in the top 4 without (as we've shown) and certainly not impossible to finish in the top 6 season after season with the odd finish in the top 4.

One top four finish, in a very strange season, does not mean you will finish top six season after season, with the odd top four finish. It means you had a lucky season, but realistically, top six is your best bet. Add to that the fact that Spurs, Sunderland, and Villa will all be investing to a much greater extent than yourselves...the league is getting tougher, and clubs are progressing, whereas Everton are standing still.

You mention Arsenal. We finished 12 (or was it 9) points behind them last season. Your telling me that without losing Arteta for half the season, and Yakubu for almost all of it, we wouldn't have got those extra 12 points? I'd disagree massively! To finish only 12 point behind them without having a recognised striker for large parts shows just how close we are to them. You just dont want to see it as were not as fashionable as mega bucks City now.

That's just nonsensical. You are a world away from Arsenal, who by the way had a raft of long term injuries last season...you massively overachieved, whilst clubs like ourselves and Spurs massively underachieved. The ifs and buts of last season are for the most part irrelevant when you consider where you finished.

Selling our best players isn't a good model for progession admitedly... however selling a very good player for stupid money and probably double his real value is good business... investing that money in to an equally good player, or one with potential to be better, and then using the spare cash to strenghten other areas is a good model. Make no mistake we're taking you to the cleaners over Lescott, we wouldn't sell unless the money benefitted us more then you.

Your presuming moyes wouldn't see more then half of the money? How the hell do you know this? Stick to the facts mate, you dont know this your just adding your own (incorrect) speculative comments as filler to your argument.

Of course the model works if you want to stay behind the big four, and compete with the best of the rest. But frankly, that's not what City are looking at doing, so I don't quite see what relevance that has. I've pointed out several times why i see Everton as going backwards next season. Just an opinion, but one based on the key factor that clubs around you will strengthen whilst you were struggle to do so...

As for Moyes seeing half the money. Well, again, if you understand how clubs like yourselves, and us a few years back, work, then you will accept that it's unlikely Moyes will see all the money from any sale of Lescott.

On a side note. I see you feel quite smug about charging over the odds for a player like Lescott. Well, clubs have been doing it in the premiership for years. You pay a premium for buying in the premiership. But it effects the market as a whole, not just the buying club. You may get 25 million for Lescott, but then every club in Europe will know you got that, and will charge you for their players accordingly...

City aren't looking to do that because they are in a highly privaleged position of having a multi multi billionaire owner, but just because thats how you now operate doesn't mean there aren't other ways for a club to operate. Infact its been shown many times that slow steady building of a young team can be far more sucessful then the boom and bust scenario of buying top players on top wages without any love for the club or being able to gel as a team.

You don't know we wont strenghten, your basing your arguments on your own opinion rather then any factual basis. we wont be buying the likes of Eto'o or Aguero thats for sure, in fact we've never been in for these types of players and still year in year out "over achieved" as you seem to think we have.

I disagree with Moyes not seeing all the money. I think he'd get it all or he wouldn't entertain selling him. Moyes isn't stupid. Neither of us can guarantee this either way so its a mute point as far as i'm concerned.

I wouldn't be suprised if Moyes brought in the players he wanted before any Lescott deal was sealed to avoid the problem of over inflated transfer fee's. I'm not being smug btw when saying we'd take you to the cleaners. i'm just trying to point out that any deal will be more beneficial to us then you, else there just be no point in doing it.

I dont think we'll go backwards next season either. your basing your arguments on teams spending large amounts of money, rather then spending wisely. Your argument fails completely if you took the time to look back over the last few seasons and seen where we finished despite other teams spending considerably more. Based on your argument Spurs, Villa, City and probably a few others should have finished above us... instead we didnt go backwards, we went forwards and added a cup final appearance to our 5th place finish.

It seems some City fans just think money is everything now they have lots and fail to see that football is a much more intricate game then just whoever spends the most finishes the highest.

 

[Anonymous]

It seems some City fans just think money is everything now they have lots and fail to see that football is a much more intricate game then just whoever spends the most finishes the highest.

A very very weak argument my friend. I have said over and over that I think Moyes has done a very good job at Everton, however you've hit a glass ceiling in terms of your progression. From here on out, it's either a steady decline, or status quo.

With money comes jealousy, which is exactly why so many of your lot are on this board giving it the big "I am". Nobody, and i mean, not a single person, on this thread has said "money is everything". However it is only the blind optimism, and naivety, of Everton fans like yourself, who seem to think that even whilst not having a pot to piss in when it comes to transfers, you can somehow continue to compete at the top end of the premiership. Dream on...

BTW, this amazing consistency which Everton have shown under Moyes manifests itself in league positions under him:

15th, 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th.

Even the most sanguine of football supporters would laugh at the assertion that Everton haven't hit a glass ceiling and the only way now is down without significant investment. Shit, even Kenwright has been alluding to it for the last two years...