Liverpool bus damaged on journey back from Etihad Stadium today

[Eccles Blue]

@GaudinoMotors - I've put this up on the Media thread, but its relevant on here. I feel your pain but...

Time to put this one to bed.

There are very strict regulations imposed on every PL club concerning offensive chanting. Offensive chanting is covered by FA rule E20.1 and sanctions against the club can range from financial penalties to partial & full stadium closure. It is the responsibility of the MCFC Safety & Security (SAS) team to ensure we're compliant and have all bases covered. The SAS has clear guidelines on what the FA deem to be "offensive" and however wrong & unpalatable it is for us, the "always the victims" chant has been deemed to be offensive, after lobbying by LFC, so falls under the E20.1 guidance.

Let's be clear here, we have NO CHOICE but to condemn it, under these rules. No choice whatsoever. So, when our SAS team hear any chant deemed to be offensive under E20.1 they have to show due diligence to the FA, which includes releasing the statement put out on Saturday, because it mitigates the sanction. The statement is a generic response to any deemed breach of E20.1 and is issued by the SAS team. You'll notice that the statement doesn't mention a specific game or chant, it's generic. The PR/Comms team don't issue it and I have it on very good authority that they don't like it and see it for what it is. The Club certainly don't like it and I'm pretty sure Pep doesn't like it, but that has no bearing on the statement whatsoever. It's all about mitigation, as is shown below, from E20.1.

A Club shall however be entitled to raise as a mitigating factor in relation to the determination of sanction only the extent to which it used all due diligence to ensure that it discharged the responsibility set out at FA Rule E20.1. In that regard, the sanction guidelines expressly refer to the following factors (amongst others) to be considered in determining sanction:

Whether the Club (and/or its officers):

* took all reasonable steps in its preparation and planning for the fixture in which the Relevant Breach occurred;
* took all reasonable steps in dealing effectively with the incident, when it arose;
* took all reasonable steps in identifying the supporter(s) involved;
* took sufficient action against those supporters responsible where those individuals were identified

Our SAS Manager has a debrief with the match referee before & after every game and despite the fact that the "offensive chanting" did not appear in the referees match report, the SAS team had to issue the club statement.

Why? Simply because they knew that the letter from Liverpool will be the post to the FA and if we had done nothing about it we would have been taken to the cleaners, with potential sanctions & the shit-storm that would become.

The club has absolutely not thrown it's supporters "under the bus" they've followed protocol, with the overall aim of protecting us from our detractors.

It's a much bigger picture than most of us will ever get our heads round.

Up the fucking Blues.

@Dodge whilst I understand and concur with all you’ve said there why doesn’t it work both ways?
Did Liverpool FC ever really do anything about the REAL damage caused to our coach? Did they ever really follow through on the young girl who was injured by the coin incident and do they ever apologise when their supporters chant offensive songs at our supporters?

As I have a friend who is a Liverpool FC supporter I have on a couple of occasions way back been in their end for matches. (Right across the aisle from Ian Rush!!) :-)
I had good experiences over the years from both our end and theirs but a few years ago it started to get very, very nasty and intimidating and I am now very wary of them.
JMHO

 

[halfcenturyup]

@GaudinoMotors - I've put this up on the Media thread, but its relevant on here. I feel your pain but...

Time to put this one to bed.

There are very strict regulations imposed on every PL club concerning offensive chanting. Offensive chanting is covered by FA rule E20.1 and sanctions against the club can range from financial penalties to partial & full stadium closure. It is the responsibility of the MCFC Safety & Security (SAS) team to ensure we're compliant and have all bases covered. The SAS has clear guidelines on what the FA deem to be "offensive" and however wrong & unpalatable it is for us, the "always the victims" chant has been deemed to be offensive, after lobbying by LFC, so falls under the E20.1 guidance.

Let's be clear here, we have NO CHOICE but to condemn it, under these rules. No choice whatsoever. So, when our SAS team hear any chant deemed to be offensive under E20.1 they have to show due diligence to the FA, which includes releasing the statement put out on Saturday, because it mitigates the sanction. The statement is a generic response to any deemed breach of E20.1 and is issued by the SAS team. You'll notice that the statement doesn't mention a specific game or chant, it's generic. The PR/Comms team don't issue it and I have it on very good authority that they don't like it and see it for what it is. The Club certainly don't like it and I'm pretty sure Pep doesn't like it, but that has no bearing on the statement whatsoever. It's all about mitigation, as is shown below, from E20.1.

A Club shall however be entitled to raise as a mitigating factor in relation to the determination of sanction only the extent to which it used all due diligence to ensure that it discharged the responsibility set out at FA Rule E20.1. In that regard, the sanction guidelines expressly refer to the following factors (amongst others) to be considered in determining sanction:

Whether the Club (and/or its officers):

* took all reasonable steps in its preparation and planning for the fixture in which the Relevant Breach occurred;
* took all reasonable steps in dealing effectively with the incident, when it arose;
* took all reasonable steps in identifying the supporter(s) involved;
* took sufficient action against those supporters responsible where those individuals were identified

Our SAS Manager has a debrief with the match referee before & after every game and despite the fact that the "offensive chanting" did not appear in the referees match report, the SAS team had to issue the club statement.

Why? Simply because they knew that the letter from Liverpool will be the post to the FA and if we had done nothing about it we would have been taken to the cleaners, with potential sanctions & the shit-storm that would become.

The club has absolutely not thrown it's supporters "under the bus" they've followed protocol, with the overall aim of protecting us from our detractors.

It's a much bigger picture than most of us will ever get our heads round.

Up the fucking Blues.

Just out of interest, do you know what the FA has decided the offensive part is: just "always the victims", or the "it's never your fault" as well?

It's a good chant, evidenced by the hand-wringing it's causing, and tuneful too. A few tweaks may sort it. I suspect there are more chants to use against them than they have time and energy to try and stop.

 

[jayfx]

What damage? I haven't seen any

The damage that City condemned in the statement they released. The damage that this whole thread is based on. Keep up mate.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

@Dodge whilst I understand and concur with all you’ve said there why doesn’t it work both ways?
Did Liverpool FC ever really do anything about the REAL damage caused to our coach? Did they ever really follow through on the young girl who was injured by the coin incident and do they ever apologise when their supporters chant offensive songs at our supporters?

As I have a friend who is a Liverpool FC supporter I have on a couple of occasions way back been in their end for matches. (Right across the aisle from Ian Rush!!) :-)
I had good experiences over the years from both our end and theirs but a few years ago it started to get very, very nasty and intimidating and I am now very wary of them.
JMHO

A very good point @Eccles Blue and something I was about to post in reply to @Dodge.

LFC don't appear to comply or be held to account under the same terms when their are similar incidents at Anfield.

 

[Dodge]

@Dodge whilst I understand and concur with all you’ve said there why doesn’t it work both ways?
Did Liverpool FC ever really do anything about the REAL damage caused to our coach? Did they ever really follow through on the young girl who was injured by the coin incident and do they ever apologise when their supporters chant offensive songs at our supporters?

As I have a friend who is a Liverpool FC supporter I have on a couple of occasions way back been in their end for matches. (Right across the aisle from Ian Rush!!) :-)
I had good experiences over the years from both our end and theirs but a few years ago it started to get very, very nasty and intimidating and I am now very wary of them.
JMHO

I have not seen any apologies Eccles, but I think they acknowledged the scandalous injury to the young girl at The Etihad.

With regard to chanting, unless City successfully get, for example, the Shipman chant onto the "offensive chant" list, it's never going to be in breach of FA rule E20.1.

Let's not underestimate the impact that Hillsborough had on the suits at the FA. It was the FA Cup, under the authority of the FA and the Premier League has FA rules imposed upon it. This has given LFC carte blanche to have ANY song they see fit put under the microscope and "always the victims" is now put under the catch-all "Hillsborough" umbrella.

I don't think any other fanbase would see it as anything other than "bants" but our precious neighbours from down the East Lancs can easily lobby the FA to include pretty much anything they deem Hillsborough related.

Apart from Munich references (and rightly so) I don't think any other club has ring-fenced any club specific "offensive" chants in any of the 5 divisions for which the FA rules apply.

City are hamstrung by this, as are all the other clubs, with the exception of Liverpool who can sing exactly what they want at Clanfield, with gusto.

 

[5 Hit Gibbon]

Nobody else can tell me it means something else when I know it doesn’t.

"In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it"

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

I think we can all agree that the chant is not about Hillsborough which some in the press and certain Liverpool forums are insinuating .

It doesn’t matter what any City fan thinks. The authorities (the police) were eventually found responsible for Hillsborough and any other authority (such as the FA or PL) will continue to ensure they don’t make further mistakes around it. The decision is now final.

 

[bluejon]

The comment about the chanting is a different issue than the comment about the bus.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the bus comment. It wasn’t an apology, just a criticism of the act and the perpetrator.

On the other hand I think the chanting comment was ill conceived as they should know that the vast majority of us don’t see the victims chant as Hillsborough related. If we did, it wouldn’t be sung by more than the odd nobhead. That I’m sure.

The chant isn't about hillsborough, they just don't like people saying nasty things to them because they're the most fragile gimpy motherfuckers on the planet. A lad I used to knock about with was crying about the 'dippers' phrase, saying it's poverty shaming etc etc on facebook a while back, trying to produce a narrative where, funnily enough, they were the victims of horrible chanting. My scouse wife told him to go fuck himself and stop being a ****, it's football fans giving each other shit, they just don't like it when it's aimed at them. Not heard from him since.

 

[eastmanc]

It doesn’t matter what any City fan thinks. The authorities (the police) were eventually found responsible for Hillsborough and any other authority (such as the FA or PL) will continue to ensure they don’t make further mistakes around it. The decision is now final.

It really pisses me off that every club and the Premier League have to tip toe around them.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Just out of interest, do you know what the FA has decided the offensive part is: just "always the victims", or the "it's never your fault" as well?

It's a good chant, evidenced by the hand-wringing it's causing, and tuneful too. A few tweaks may sort it. I suspect there are more chants to use against them than they have time and energy to try and stop.

It is a good and very fitting chant.

Another one we could start singing is (to the tune of ‘we all hate Leeds, scum’):

‘OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING, ASHAMED OF NOTHING
OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING, ASHAMED OF NOTHING
OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING, ASHAMED OF NOTHING
OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING, ASHAMED OF NOTHING’