Liverpool fans - arrogant, deluded or just plain stupid?

You can say that about nearly all teams though.

Take Tevez out of us, and would RSC have scored all of those goals?

I honestly think that the impact of Alonso has been overstated this year, and it's an easy excuse to pin their blame to. In my opinion, Gerrard has played too far forward to compensate for the injuries to Torres, and he isn't as good behind the strikers. He is a world class centre mid, or a very good attacking mid, and they've chosen the very good instead of the world class until recently.

Aquilaini is starting to look like a good player now he has found his feet, Benayoun has always been a top player and a match winner. He's their Bellamy, he isn't always fantastic, but he has the ability to win a match and can always be counted on to work hard. My opinion on Lucas differs from most - for me, he was the stand out player in the Brazilian Olympic team, and is only a kid. He can only get better and better. Mascherano has actually been pretty average in the later part of the season, but a 3 man midfield of him, Benyaoun and Gerrard, with Aquilani and Lucas to come in when needed seems pretty strong to me. Get two wide men (maybe Babel? Cole would be great for them), or let Aurielo/Johnson exploit the flanks and they have the makings of a really top side, I disagree that they are average.

Defensively, I always find Liverpool a bit strange. They do have some good players in Skrtel, Johnson and that young Ayala lad looks very promising. Despite this though, they make schoolboy errors like we were doing at the start of the season, getting done by simple one-twos, low struck crosses, or more than a bit, because they don't close down the gap 'between the lines' of defence and midfield. As I say, pretty simple stuff and really they are things that a team as good as theirs shouldn't be getting done by. I've heard a pundit recently say that the loss of Hyypia in the dressing room has probably effected them, and I agree to an extent.

I don't think that this season is the be all and end all of them with the lack of Champions League. If Rafa were to stick around, I would imagine a player like Torres would accept a year without CL football, I mean, Tevez did as did Adebayor, Toure, Bridge, De Jong and Kompany (that may have been UEFA Cup thinking of it). Torres hasn't had a rest in about 5 years really. He has played every season, then had the European Championships, the World Cup, the Confederations Cup, etc in between. Perhaps he would relish the opportunity to have a year where he wasn't playing 100 games a calendar year?

Liverpool ARE a big club with a big fanbase. They have fans all over the world and they shouldn't need to sell any players if this is just a blip. We are forgetting that Arsenal won 15+ points this year in dodgy penalties, or late goals. There is no guarantee that they will do the same next year, especially as Fabregas will be playing first team for Spain in the World Cup now that Xavi has been declared unfit for it. That will put him in the shop window, and I wouldn't put it past somebody to test Arsenal's resolve with a huge bid for him.
IF the Liverpool board and their creditors are convinced that this season was just bad performances, and Arsenal's was the opposite, they may well continue with their normal budget and take the financial loss for a year.

I've heard the rumours of DIC coming in, and to be honest, I'm a little skeptical. I'm pretty sure that Shiekh Mansour's family have just had to bail out Dubai to the tune of about $100bn, so where they are getting their money from, I don't know. Even if we ignore that, would Dubai really get involved in a straight competition with Abu Dhabi in a race that they cannot possibly win? That wouldn't exactly do wonders for their image? Personally, I don't know and I'm not an expert in UAE politics or finances, hopefully hbruz, Ajay or somebody with a inside view can tell us more about the likelihood of this happening.

I do think that Benitez, more than anything, is the absolute key to all of this. Rafa has played a very, very clever game against the owners of Liverpool. It is a game that is also played in a slightly different way by Ferguson and Mourinho. When their team performs badly, both of those managers respond by saying the most outlandish thing possible, that will dominate the headlines instead of the teams performance. I get the feeling that Benitez is essentially playing the same game, but directing the fire at the owners, to play some politics and push for some more money. The Liverpool fans are all against the Yanks but have In Rafa We Trust signs everywhere? I've seen some figures back in January that suggest to me that the problem is more to do with Rafa's buying strategy/scouting team rather than the owners lack of transfer funds, yet the fans have this reaction towards the owners that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe Liverpool fans can explain this to me, as it doesn't seem to add up.

Rafa's options are to stay with Liverpool, fight for the Europa League next season, whilst trying to overtake City, Villa, Everton (perhaps), Spurs and possibly Arsenal or go to Juventus for a clean break and a crack at the Europa League in a horrible league. I'd stick with Liverpool if I were him, especially as he only signed a deal a couple of years back. TO be a top manager, you have to beat the best in the world, and the challenge of restoring Liverpool may appeal to him.

Either way, Liverpool's future is uncertain at present due to non-footballing related issues, such as management, ownership and finances, yet the team on the pitch certainly do have the quality to make the top four next season. They've had a bad time this season, but they wouldn't be the first to have an off season and then storm the season after. It's very much a wait and see game, and I definitely wouldn't write them off just yet.
 
If they sacrifice the Europa comp. by fielding sub standard teams, they won't have to play so many games and this could be a big factor in their league placing next year, you can never write a club with such a big fan base off completely. I don't think they will end up like Leeds but could be in for a few falow seasons.
 
They remind me alittle of City in the late 70s, with still a pretty good team, but without much room for mistakes in the transfer market. The big change now, is if you fuck up its 100 times harder to get back into that top 3rd than 30 years ago.
 
I've been reading their threads too and I have to say the majority of them actually think they are in a lot of trouble - though they see the Americans selling up as being a likely cause of a revival to title-winning ways. You say they're deluded but actually a lot of them are predicting Liverpool to fall into a spiral of decline.

Tin hat on but I wouldn't be the first to say that some on here are getting pretty arrogant, too...
 
The Liverpool fans I know at work are hurting and sadly have turned quite bitter towards City, which pissed me off as I've always been pretty neutral towards Liverpool and cheered them on in the CL.

One of them told me he wanted Spurs to win on Weds..!?!?!
 
Petetheblu said:
One of them told me he wanted Spurs to win on Weds..!?!?!

Thats because Spurs are unlikely to sustain a top 4 finish over a number of seasons,they would probably do an Everton. (One season wonder) whereas once City break into the top 4 they will be hard to shift.
 
Damocles said:
You can say that about nearly all teams though.

Take Tevez out of us, and would RSC have scored all of those goals?

I honestly think that the impact of Alonso has been overstated this year, and it's an easy excuse to pin their blame to. In my opinion, Gerrard has played too far forward to compensate for the injuries to Torres, and he isn't as good behind the strikers. He is a world class centre mid, or a very good attacking mid, and they've chosen the very good instead of the world class until recently.

Aquilaini is starting to look like a good player now he has found his feet, Benayoun has always been a top player and a match winner. He's their Bellamy, he isn't always fantastic, but he has the ability to win a match and can always be counted on to work hard. My opinion on Lucas differs from most - for me, he was the stand out player in the Brazilian Olympic team, and is only a kid. He can only get better and better. Mascherano has actually been pretty average in the later part of the season, but a 3 man midfield of him, Benyaoun and Gerrard, with Aquilani and Lucas to come in when needed seems pretty strong to me. Get two wide men (maybe Babel? Cole would be great for them), or let Aurielo/Johnson exploit the flanks and they have the makings of a really top side, I disagree that they are average.

Defensively, I always find Liverpool a bit strange. They do have some good players in Skrtel, Johnson and that young Ayala lad looks very promising. Despite this though, they make schoolboy errors like we were doing at the start of the season, getting done by simple one-twos, low struck crosses, or more than a bit, because they don't close down the gap 'between the lines' of defence and midfield. As I say, pretty simple stuff and really they are things that a team as good as theirs shouldn't be getting done by. I've heard a pundit recently say that the loss of Hyypia in the dressing room has probably effected them, and I agree to an extent.

I don't think that this season is the be all and end all of them with the lack of Champions League. If Rafa were to stick around, I would imagine a player like Torres would accept a year without CL football, I mean, Tevez did as did Adebayor, Toure, Bridge, De Jong and Kompany (that may have been UEFA Cup thinking of it). Torres hasn't had a rest in about 5 years really. He has played every season, then had the European Championships, the World Cup, the Confederations Cup, etc in between. Perhaps he would relish the opportunity to have a year where he wasn't playing 100 games a calendar year?

Liverpool ARE a big club with a big fanbase. They have fans all over the world and they shouldn't need to sell any players if this is just a blip. We are forgetting that Arsenal won 15+ points this year in dodgy penalties, or late goals. There is no guarantee that they will do the same next year, especially as Fabregas will be playing first team for Spain in the World Cup now that Xavi has been declared unfit for it. That will put him in the shop window, and I wouldn't put it past somebody to test Arsenal's resolve with a huge bid for him.
IF the Liverpool board and their creditors are convinced that this season was just bad performances, and Arsenal's was the opposite, they may well continue with their normal budget and take the financial loss for a year.

I've heard the rumours of DIC coming in, and to be honest, I'm a little skeptical. I'm pretty sure that Shiekh Mansour's family have just had to bail out Dubai to the tune of about $100bn, so where they are getting their money from, I don't know. Even if we ignore that, would Dubai really get involved in a straight competition with Abu Dhabi in a race that they cannot possibly win? That wouldn't exactly do wonders for their image? Personally, I don't know and I'm not an expert in UAE politics or finances, hopefully hbruz, Ajay or somebody with a inside view can tell us more about the likelihood of this happening.

I do think that Benitez, more than anything, is the absolute key to all of this. Rafa has played a very, very clever game against the owners of Liverpool. It is a game that is also played in a slightly different way by Ferguson and Mourinho. When their team performs badly, both of those managers respond by saying the most outlandish thing possible, that will dominate the headlines instead of the teams performance. I get the feeling that Benitez is essentially playing the same game, but directing the fire at the owners, to play some politics and push for some more money. The Liverpool fans are all against the Yanks but have In Rafa We Trust signs everywhere? I've seen some figures back in January that suggest to me that the problem is more to do with Rafa's buying strategy/scouting team rather than the owners lack of transfer funds, yet the fans have this reaction towards the owners that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe Liverpool fans can explain this to me, as it doesn't seem to add up.

Rafa's options are to stay with Liverpool, fight for the Europa League next season, whilst trying to overtake City, Villa, Everton (perhaps), Spurs and possibly Arsenal or go to Juventus for a clean break and a crack at the Europa League in a horrible league. I'd stick with Liverpool if I were him, especially as he only signed a deal a couple of years back. TO be a top manager, you have to beat the best in the world, and the challenge of restoring Liverpool may appeal to him.

Either way, Liverpool's future is uncertain at present due to non-footballing related issues, such as management, ownership and finances, yet the team on the pitch certainly do have the quality to make the top four next season. They've had a bad time this season, but they wouldn't be the first to have an off season and then storm the season after. It's very much a wait and see game, and I definitely wouldn't write them off just yet.

im pretty sure rick parry put a stop to dic, you dont get two bites of the cherry with rich arabs imo.
 
royle said:
Petetheblu said:
One of them told me he wanted Spurs to win on Weds..!?!?!

Thats because Spurs are unlikely to sustain a top 4 finish over a number of seasons,they would probably do an Everton. (One season wonder) whereas once City break into the top 4 they will be hard to shift.

Good point, and exactly why they want Spurs to do it. Also (tin hat at ready), for scousers it would mean two Manchester clubs in the CL! I know, I know, I know, but I'm on about their point of view, not ours.....
 

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