Liverpool thread 2020/21

Status
Not open for further replies.
I just don't get their unrelenting loyalty to players. Salah is an absolute diving tosspot but I am yet to speak to a kopite who says "yeh he does go down easily". Richarlison is a theatrical whopper sometimes and if he dived and won a pen I would happily admit it and just be glad the ref was kind to us.

Salah and Mane can hold off 3 players with ease but any touch in the box and flailing arms and screaming but their fans will never admit it. Cult mentality
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
My question is, does he have a Plan B? It's all gegenpressing, Firmino as a sort of false 9, full-backs getting high up the field, pinning opposition wide players back and pinging accurate crosses in. It works, in the same way Ferguson's tactics worked, because they had the right players who were very good at playing the system.

Gegenpressing is a hard tactic to counter; you have to be exceptionally good to play your way out of it & even we struggle to do it. But you can't do it for 90 minutes, as the history of our games there have shown.

In 2019/20 we were 2 down within 15 minutes;
In 2017/18 we went behind inside 10 minutes;
In the CL game we were 2 down in 20 minutes;
In 2016/17 we went behind inside 10 minutes.

Generally we've looked the stronger in the last 20 minutes of those games but it was also a characteristic of those games that we'd completely go to pieces for 10 or 15 minutes.

Pep has adapted (although not always effectively) and though we weren't comfortable in that first half, we got through it. Having changed things in the second we took the game to them, with the outcome that they (and their keeper particularly) went to pieces under our pressure.

I'm dubious whether Flopp can make the fundamental changes required to his system to get them back on track. He hasn't got the tactical flexibility that Pep has shown throughout his career. If the brute force gegenpressing approach
doesn't work, is there. anything else in Flopp's cupboard? I suspect the answer is no.
Click to expand...
What a fantastic post.

You can see how the games have played out especially at Anfield but at the Etihad as well.

When we beat the 5-0, they had a couple of chances early doors but didn't take advantage and eventually ran out of steam. The same in the 4-0 last season.

Pep has learned how to ride it out and then pick them off.

I wouldn't worry a jot about drawing them in the Champions League this season.
 
M18CTID said:
This is a fair point. It wasn't that long ago that many of our fans were asking searching questions of our own team and manager, and even Pep's contract extension drew a muted response in some quarters because they felt he'd taken the team as far as he could. This was exacerbated by the 2-0 defeat at Spurs which came just a few days after he signed that new deal. I and others tried not to get dragged into that but I have to admit that I was getting concerned myself. Fast forward 8-10 weeks and the situation looks completely different so it can change for the better and quickly. What I would say though is that we seemingly went back to basics and learnt how to defend again first and foremost, then used that as a springboard for taking the handbrake off later. It wasn't pretty at first but it was a necessity. The question is - can Liverpool do something similar with their defence even when van Dijk and the other CBs return? For me, the likes of Matip and Gomez are nowhere near good enough to partner him on a regular basis and I'm not sure those other two they've signed are either. IMO they need someone close to the level of Dias for us to team up with van Dijk, and there aren't many of those players around.
Click to expand...
I'll say their slump isn't down to injuries. Their slump has began since the COVID restart, when they stuttered to the title. At that point, there were no notable injuries to their squad but they already started to look mentally fatigued.

I do think they need to refresh the squad, either on a personnel-basis or tactically. It isn't something exclusive to Liverpool, I believe every club needs to do that every 3-4 years, more-so if you're near/at the top. The players need fresh ideas. It doesn't even have to be huge radical changes, but subtle tactical adjustments can be beneficial. It becomes even more prevalent if the other teams around you start 'figuring you out'.

For us, we introduced Foden as a mainstay in the first 11, added Cancelo's dynamism, playing with a false 9, all whilst playing a more conservative approach.

I wonder if Klopp can come up with something new. He left Dortmund after Dortmund started showing similar signs. He did switch up from a more intensive and reactive Gegenpress system, to a more patient, possession-based system after his first year with Liverpool. At this point, without Jota (or arguably Keita), there isn't enough quality off his bench to offer the squad fresher ideas.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
My question is, does he have a Plan B? It's all gegenpressing, Firmino as a sort of false 9, full-backs getting high up the field, pinning opposition wide players back and pinging accurate crosses in. It works, in the same way Ferguson's tactics worked, because they had the right players who were very good at playing the system.

Gegenpressing is a hard tactic to counter; you have to be exceptionally good to play your way out of it & even we struggle to do it. But you can't do it for 90 minutes, as the history of our games there have shown.

In 2019/20 we were 2 down within 15 minutes;
In 2017/18 we went behind inside 10 minutes;
In the CL game we were 2 down in 20 minutes;
In 2016/17 we went behind inside 10 minutes.

Generally we've looked the stronger in the last 20 minutes of those games but it was also a characteristic of those games that we'd completely go to pieces for 10 or 15 minutes.

Pep has adapted (although not always effectively) and though we weren't comfortable in that first half, we got through it. Having changed things in the second we took the game to them, with the outcome that they (and their keeper particularly) went to pieces under our pressure.

I'm dubious whether Flopp can make the fundamental changes required to his system to get them back on track. He hasn't got the tactical flexibility that Pep has shown throughout his career. If the brute force gegenpressing approach
doesn't work, is there. anything else in Flopp's cupboard? I suspect the answer is no.
Click to expand...

All he has left is a baying mob, in waiting.
 
M18CTID said:
He is. He's a better manager than some on here give him credit for - you don't win back-to-back titles in Germany and the league and CL while in England if you're not a good manager. However, I think his achilles heel is running players into the ground due to his maniacal pressing game. That's what happened at Dortmund where it unravelled pretty quickly from a position of great strength, and is what appears to be happening at Liverpool now.

It is possible he can address it unlike at Dortmund because on the face of it, Liverpool have greater resources in terms of refreshing the squad with new signings but I'm not sure FSG will back him enough in the transfer market. The impression I get is that Klopp is on a bit of a collision course with the owners and Liverpool fans should be asking why the likes of Everton are outspending them despite their (Liverpool's) revenues rising considerably over the past couple of seasons on the back of 2 CL final appearances and a PL win. Of course, they've taken a hit during the pandemic with no fans allowed in, and that hit will be greater than most other clubs but even so, every other club has taken a hit too and in any case Liverpool have other lucrative revenue streams. It wouldn't surprise me if FSG are looking at an exit strategy as they'd make a tidy profit if they sold the club.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised if Liverpool's overall revenues are not that much lower than before Covid. They have seen big increases in sponsorship and TV revenues. They are also huge in Asia which has not been hit by Covid as badly as the West.
 
He must feel insanely immense pressure managing that club now that he’s raised the bar to non sustainable levels..
 
///Everything you say is true. But on the other hand I wouldn’t want my club to be owned by a sugar daddy. I never want to see my club sack Gerrard the way Chelsea sacked Lampard. It’s just not who we are.

When people talk about catching up with City, I think they don’t realize they are talking about a team that spent more than half a billion ONLY on defenders in the last 2-3 years. There is no catching up unless you get petrol money and that’s a fact. I am in no way saying they influence referees or there is match fixing, but I can say that they somehow have some influence on FIFA and UEFA. They are allowed spend money like there’s no tomorrow, either barely regulated or even if regulated they find loopholes with sponsorships and other ways that I am not clever enough to understand. Football is completely different than what it was, and it is very easy to get lost in it. We have to be careful with our spending.

Young and new supporters are more enthusiastic about stats, silverware and big names and I absolutely understand that, but I just can’t be arsed about those. I mean of course silverwares are great, but for me Liverpool is more than that. It’s just for me though, so I am not saying this is how it should be for everybody.//
 
//Honestly, the FSG approach is logical in any other business then football, when you compete against owners like Man City who treat their clubs as vehicles for sports washing. It's a bloody fact that absent their corrupt capital, we win in 13/14, we win in 18/19. Am I sad we did not reload when the iron was hot? Yes, but I also hate that we have to compete against that lot and their ill-gotten gains.//
 
Perfect timing - I was just sat on dinner with a couple of workmates (spread across a few table mind) when a Leeds number rings my mobile.

I answer it because I'm waiting for a couple of deliveries but it's a strong scouse accent asking my about the road traffic accident I was involved in last July. I asking him for more details but he can only tell me that the vehicle I was a passenger in was rear shunted at traffic light.

"Sorry, that wasn't me."

"Ok, we must have the wrong details. I'll remove your number from the database. Have a good day."

"Before you go, did you watch the football yesterday?"

"Of course Sir, I always watch the football."

"I had a better day yesterday. It was the best day of the season."

The penny must've dropped at this point, so he replied;

"It's strange that, everyone seems to have their best day of the season if they beat Liverpool. It must be because we're so good."

"No, it's because everyone fucking hates you."

And I put the phone down.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top