Liverpool thread 2020/21

[OccupiedPalestineBlues]

A lot of the official lies were believed at the time (and to a point still are) precisely because of the reputation Liverpool fans had at the time, as one of the most outrageously ill-behaved fan bases in this or any other country. It's the old story of 'give a dog a bad name.'

Now, it is true that the 'bad element' were always a minority, just as today's feral scum are a minority, but unfortunately mud sticks, and it doesn't just stick to that minority, but to all.

In the same way, if 500 City fans were responsible for something outrageous this weekend - let's say they burned down a pub, or whatever - does anyone think it would have no impact on the image of City fans in general?

If City suddenly had a load of feral fans and they bricked a coach or set a pub alight, as per your example, then I think the culprits would be rounded up, charged and imprisoned as the mass of City fans would stand witness because they’re decent people who won’t condone the violence.

Liverpool has hundreds of feral fans who brick and bottle coaches, beat up disabled opposition supporters etc. but they don’t get prosecuted because they’re protected by their mass of fans who are equally culpable because they’re happy to turn a blind eye to these regular crimes.
It’s the Liverpool fans who don’t take part in the violence who perpetuate it by protecting the ferals.

 

[Berts Neck]

I found out from a fellow blue last night that when Juventus did an anniversary ceremony for Heysel, Liverpool tried to send representatives and Juventus told them where to go. Well played, those zebras.

Hi,like your posts and thank you for your time..What I can not comprehend is this. Your grounds are a short distance apart so in effect the same population and socioeconomic issues not a factor. No bad things happen with Everton fans..Just trying to comprehend why Liverpool fans behave this way..am just trying to make sense of this as it really disgusts me. Am I silly in thinking the Shankly life or death quote, and a hankering for previous glory is to blame ? Pleased you have your new stadium agreed..looks mighty impressive. Will not mention Moyes or Cahill..always jinxed us !!!!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

It was a national disgrace and, even today, some people continue to believe the smears put out by the authorities at the time.

That's the sad thing for me. Those myths and lies still persist to this day, despite the clear evidence to the contrary.

Were some fans drunk? Quite probably as we've all seen City fans out of their skulls at away games. But to directly link those 96 deaths to some drunken mob is pernicious.

And, as I've said a few times already, it allows the authorities to enforce discriminatory measures against us as football fans, whereby I can sit in my Etihad seat for a concert and have a drink there but if I try to do that at a football match I'm certain to be ejected and likely to be arrested.

Football fans drink --> Football fans die in a tragedy --> Drink (falsely) gets blamed for the tragedy to cover up incompetence --> Football fans must be stopped or discouraged from drinking at, or on the way to, matches.

Repeating the lies merely reinforces this cycle. If we show it up for the lie it is, then the better the chances of getting rid of the discriminatory treatment.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

That's the sad thing for me. Those myths and lies still persist to this day, despite the clear evidence to the contrary.

Were some fans drunk? Quite probably as we've all seen City fans out of their skulls at away games. But to directly link those 96 deaths to some drunken mob is pernicious.

And, as I've said a few times already, it allows the authorities to enforce discriminatory measures against us as football fans, whereby I can sit in my Etihad seat for a concert and have a drink there but if I try to do that at a football match I'm certain to be ejected and likely to be arrested.

Football fans drink --> Football fans die in a tragedy --> Drink (falsely) gets blamed for the tragedy to cover up incompetence --> Football fans must be stopped or discouraged from drinking at, or on the way to, matches.

Repeating the lies merely reinforces this cycle. If we show it up for the lie it is, then the better the chances of getting rid of the discriminatory treatment.

It's the old divide and conquer thing. The cover-up was politically-driven. People are easily manipulated by the media. Look how City's reputation has been trashed by false smear stories over the last decade. We should know better than most how it feels. I don't want to say too much detail on here about what happened in 1989 (there is a legal contempt risk) but next's week's court case should help reveal more info on the cover-up. It's not easy to defend Liverpool fans on here but what happened was truly appalling.

 

[BrianW]

If City suddenly had a load of feral fans and they bricked a coach or set a pub alight, as per your example, then I think the culprits would be rounded up, charged and imprisoned as the mass of City fans would stand witness because they’re decent people who won’t condone the violence.

Liverpool has hundreds of feral fans who brick and bottle coaches, beat up disabled opposition supporters etc. but they don’t get prosecuted because they’re protected by their mass of fans who are equally culpable because they’re happy to turn a blind eye to these regular crimes.
It’s the Liverpool fans who don’t take part in the violence who perpetuate it by protecting the ferals.

I think there is at least some truth in what you say. I once worked with a Scouser. He agreed that Liverpool had a lot of "scallies" as he called them. He always had a bit of a cheeky grin when talking about them though - rather like an elder brother might talk about his mischievous younger brother. Almost indulgent. I don't recall him condemning them or saying they were scum who let the city down.

I don't think any sub-group of humanity is uniquely wicked, you will find good and bad anywhere, among all races, religions and creeds. But at times the LFC lot really do not help themselves.

 

[cheekybids]

Well said PB. People should be able to readily distinguish Hillsborough and Heysel and each tragedy’s associated culpability.

One was police & the other was Belgian bricklayers & Chelsea Skin heads .

 

[cheekybids]

I found out from a fellow blue last night that when Juventus did an anniversary ceremony for Heysel, Liverpool tried to send representatives and Juventus told them where to go. Well played, those zebras.

it was Phil Neal & he wanted paying.

 

[oman0115]

I found out from a fellow blue last night that when Juventus did an anniversary ceremony for Heysel, Liverpool tried to send representatives and Juventus told them where to go. Well played, those zebras.

The cheek, that's like South Yorkshire police lining up with the Liverpool players in the Centre circle when they do their Hillsborough ceremony!

 

[Blue Mist]

That's the sad thing for me. Those myths and lies still persist to this day, despite the clear evidence to the contrary.

Were some fans drunk? Quite probably as we've all seen City fans out of their skulls at away games. But to directly link those 96 deaths to some drunken mob is pernicious.

And, as I've said a few times already, it allows the authorities to enforce discriminatory measures against us as football fans, whereby I can sit in my Etihad seat for a concert and have a drink there but if I try to do that at a football match I'm certain to be ejected and likely to be arrested.

Football fans drink --> Football fans die in a tragedy --> Drink (falsely) gets blamed for the tragedy to cover up incompetence --> Football fans must be stopped or discouraged from drinking at, or on the way to, matches.

Repeating the lies merely reinforces this cycle. If we show it up for the lie it is, then the better the chances of getting rid of the discriminatory treatment. You are looking at one very sad and tragic incident and using that as a stick to beat the authorities/government with especially in relation to alcohol. Hillsborough was the final tragic straw, there was a long history of violence often fuelled by alcohol. Looking back caging fans in was always going to end badly but it was done to stop pitch invasions, separating home and away fans was to stop hundreds of away fans coming onto the Kippax to 'take our end'. (The first idea was to put a rope up!!!!)

The vast majority of grounds hadn't been improved since they were built, the Kippax being an ideal example. The tragedy forced clubs to spend money on improvements but the ultimate problem was football hooligans and Liverpool were at the forefrontof it. They are still behaving like feral scrotes 30-40 years later and we are still suffering with alcohol bans because of it.

 

[oman0115]

A lot of the official lies were believed at the time (and to a point still are) precisely because of the reputation Liverpool fans had at the time, as one of the most outrageously ill-behaved fan bases in this or any other country. It's the old story of 'give a dog a bad name.'

Now, it is true that the 'bad element' were always a minority, just as today's feral scum are a minority, but unfortunately mud sticks, and it doesn't just stick to that minority, but to all.

In the same way, if 500 City fans were responsible for something outrageous this weekend - let's say they burned down a pub, or whatever - does anyone think it would have no impact on the image of City fans in general?

I know a few Forest fans who were at the Hillsborough game and the replay, they hate Liverpool with a passion. Forest fans were helping on the pitch apparently, and really sympathetic and supportive outside the ground. Then in the replay Liverpool's first song was ''we hate Nottingham Forest, we hate Everton too.....'' and then Forest put no effort into the replay and Brian Laws scored an own goal and Alridge sarcastically patted him on his head. Nearly 30 years and they still talk about it.