Liverpool Thread - 2023/24

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SebastianBlue said:
This is a common thought experiment to explore the nature of morality and self-motivated behaviour in humans. There is obviously truth to the exercise.

But it is not in contradiction to my assertion that most people are just trying to make it through the day the best they can, whilst taking care of those that rely on them (or that they perceive rely on them).

Again, these concepts are not mutually exclusive. People often want to reduce things down to binary states: true or false, this or that, us or them.

But the world very rarely works that way. Almost nothing is absolute. Each person is a multitude—sometimes on balance for the good, sometimes for the bad, but most often firmly in between.

As I said in my previous post, everyone has moments that test their ideals, and moments where they compromise them for their own (or their loved ones’) gain. But that doesn’t mean such self-interested behaviour consumes their every waking moment. Or even most of them.

I think you and I see the world differently, which is why we clash so much on so many topics. You tend to see things in absolutist terms, with only rare instances of nuance. Whereas I tend to see things in relativist terms, with only rare instances of absolutes.

And that transfers over to how we see people. It seems, based on your statements, that if a person has ever kicked a cat for £10,000, then they are inherently a self-interested person. Whereas, for me, a person having kicked a cat for £10,000 is not enough evidence of their self-serving nature.

Because we have all been tested and failed. Some of us many times. But we have also been tested and passed. Often, again, many times.

We are not merely the sum total of our mistakes and moments of weakness. And I would hate to walk through the world with that mindset.

At any rate, Henderson is a ****, for many reasons. But he isn’t an evil ****. And perhaps he’ll surprise us all and continue his advocacy whilst playing in Saudi Arabia.

Though, if I am honest, I sincerely doubt it, for the same reason that most members of the LGBTQ+ community there don’t, even if he has far, far more protection and power.

Which is really where my disappointment lies: not in him being a ****, just him being one that wastes a position few of us will ever realise.
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I absolutely disagree with the suggestion I am absolutist :)

But at least we can agree that VAR as implemented is absolutely awful?
 
hammocity said:
Dippers playing in Singapore with a Stadium that’s sparsely attended, thousands of empty seats, they’re not relevant anymore.
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I've said in the past that the day I start bragging that we have more fans in Ulan Bator than the likes of United and Liverpool and wearing it as a badge of honour like fans of both those clubs do then that's the day I'll want shooting and that still stands even though our fanbase is clearly growing exponentially.

However, what I will do is point out to all the dickhead United and Liverpool fans that their comments that City will continue to remain irrelevant in the wider scheme of things despite how many trophies we win is proving to be complete and utter bollocks. This notion that they have that only their clubs and a select few others can pick up shit loads of new fans worldwide is as blinkered as it gets, and it's a notion that is unravelling before their very eyes given the turnout we've seen on this Far East tour with the amount of fans that want a piece of City being off the scale. It's an old fashioned view that doesn't stand up in today's world where social media interaction plays such a big part in shaping the modern-day fan. And although I'm not big on social media myself, I can see that City have got that side of things down to a fine art. Even if you go back a decade and look at that Harlem Shake video the players did, it has nearly 10 million views on YouTube. You do of course need a successful football team as well and by winning the treble and the CL in particular it's elevated the size of our fanbase to another level. Now some of those fans may well drift away at some point in the future but this is also the case for United and Liverpool, etc, but as with those two clubs many of them will get the City bug and become fans for life.

It's clear that some of us older fans don't quite get how many of the younger generation go about supporting their clubs and how some of them may view other clubs too. I got talking to a couple of lads from Preston on the platform at Deansgate station following the treble parade. Both were in their early twenties and pissed up, and both said they'd had a great day. But here's the rub - one was a Preston fan and I could kind of understand that he might want to see the parade as a neutral and get to see our players and manager displaying the trophies. However, to my astonishment his mate was a United fan. Now I wouldn't have been seen dead at United's treble-winning parade in 1999 but maybe some of these younger fans aren't as bitter as us older lot.

That's the reality and no amount of bitter pontificating from fans of other clubs will change that. Do they think City fans in Japan, South Korea, and elsewhere are that arsed about the ongoing Premier League investigation or lemon-sucking cunts saying our success is tainted? Going off some of the footage I've see over the past week or so, clearly not!
 
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M18CTID said:
I've said in the past that the day I start bragging that we have more fans in Ulan Bator than the likes of United and Liverpool and wearing it as a badge of honour like fans of both those clubs do then that's the day I'll want shooting and that still stands even though our fanbase is clearly growing exponentially.

However, what I will do is point out to all the dickhead United and Liverpool fans that their comments that City will continue to remain irrelevant in the wider scheme of things despite how many trophies we win is proving to be complete and utter bollocks. This notion that they have that only their clubs and a select few others can pick up shit loads of new fans worldwide is as blinkered as it gets, and it's a notion that is unravelling before their very eyes given the turnout we've seen on this Far East tour with the amount of fans that want a piece of City being off the scale. It's an old fashioned view that doesn't stand up in today's world where social media interaction plays such a big part in shaping the modern-day fan. And although I'm not big on social media myself, I can see that City have got that side of things down to a fine art. Even if you go back a decade and look at that Harlem Shake video the players did, it has nearly 10 million views on YouTube. You do of course need a successful football team as well and by winning the treble and the CL in particular it's elevated the size of our fanbase to another level. Now some of those fans may well drift away at some point in the future but this is the case for United and Liverpool, etc, but as with those two clubs many of them will get the City bug and become fans for life.

It's clear that some of us older fans don't quite get how many of the younger generation go about supporting their clubs and how some of them may view other clubs too. I got talking to a couple of lads from Preston on the platform at Deansgate station following the treble parade. Both were in their early twenties and pissed up, and both said they'd had a great day. But here's the rub - one was a Preston fan and I could kind of understand that he might want to see the parade as a neutral and get to see our players and manager displaying the trophies. However, to my astonishment his mate was a United fan. Now I wouldn't have been seen dead at United's treble-winning parade in 1999 but maybe some of these younger fans aren't as bitter as us older lot.

That's the reality and no amount of bitter pontificating from fans of other clubs will change that. Do they think City fans in Japan, South Korea, and elsewhere are that arsed about the ongoing Premier League investigation or lemon-sucking cunts saying our success is tainted? Going off some of the footage I've see over the past week or so, clearly not!
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The only reason I posted was because years ago the media would report us as playing pre season games in half empty stadiums, made a big deal of it. They also reported how the big crowds turned up to support the Rags and Dippers, yesterday must have been embarrassing for the Dippers, if you’ve not seen it there were thousands of empty seats. I’m not too arsed about overseas support but I’d just like a bit of balance, I’m aware we’ll never get it though.
 
hammocity said:
The only reason I posted was because years ago the media would report us as playing pre season games in half empty stadiums, made a big deal of it. They also reported how the big crowds turned up to support the Rags and Dippers, yesterday must have been embarrassing for the Dippers, if you’ve not seen it there were thousands of empty seats. I’m not too arsed about overseas support but I’d just like a bit of balance, I’m aware we’ll never get it though.
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Yep, good points. I remember when we toured the States back around 2009/2010 so not long after the takeover. We weren't getting anything like the crowds that we get now when we go over there, and posters on Rag Cafe were taking the piss. I don't think they're laughing now.

United will continue to sell out stadia on the other side of the world for the foreseeable but I recall that immediately before Klopp became manager, Liverpool weren't playing in front of capacity crowds in the Far East and that's the case now too.
 
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