Louisiana Science Textbook

[AntiUnited]

The bible belt south nothing new here just let those inbreds do what they want.

 

[Aguero_Element]

wow, north korea eat ur heart out

 

[SWP's back]

Its all down to the individual to sift what information they are exposed to,and either believe without question or research alternative solutions.No one has all the answers.

Especially when they're brainwashed.

Their;
The whole world is brainwashed,one way or another.

No, it's "they're" you illiterate pedant.<br /><br />-- Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:07 pm --<br /><br />

I am a huge fan of tolerance and letting others live their lives their way. I find some of the intolerance on this board displayed on the religion threads to those not sharing a particular point of view to be pretty nauseating. So I would not want to condemn Louisiana schools for teaching creation as a possible theory any more than than I would condemn schools in Saudi Arabia for teaching Islamic creationist thought.

But the idea that a person who grows up being taught this crap could one day be

(a) the most powerful man (or woman) on the planet, and
(b) the commander in chief of the most powerful military on the planet, and
(c) in possession of a locked briefcase with a big red button inside

is one I find utterly fucking frightening.

Creationism isn't a possible theory, it's a make-believe story which categorically can't be backed up with any scientific evidence whatsoever. People may as well be taught that the universe was created by Bob Carolgees using an Etch-A-Sketch if we're giving creationism any creedence.

That would be the sort of intolerance I had in mind. Good luck with explaining to the several billion adherents to one monotheistic religion or another that their most deeply held convictions are in fact bollocks.

Fallacious argument.

 

[LA_Citizen]

I have lived in Louisiana my whole life. I went to private, Catholic schools for all my schooling except college. We were taught evolution at my Catholic high school. I imagine the schools who use this textbook are in the minority even in a state like Louisiana.

 

[joeCTID]

I have lived in Louisiana my whole life. I went to private, Catholic schools for all my schooling except college. We were taught evolution at my Catholic high school. I imagine the schools who use this textbook are in the minority even in a state like Louisiana.

Agree it will be a minority, The problem is that minority is still too many people. Kids have enough to learn in life so why make it hard for them feeding them this rubbish.

 

[pominoz]

Creationsim can be scientifically disproven. The only instances where this becomes trickier are the ones where creationists have essentially taken the proven scientific elements of evolution and tagged God on superfluously. So, creationism isn't a possible theory. It's an attempt by religious people to either disregard scientific fact completely, or to obfuscate it by aligning it with God.

You come very close to equating 'possible' with 'plausible', which is precisely the opposite of the way in which I was using the word. Since you are taking issue with something I said, if you don't mind me saying so that isn't especially sensible (as it amounts to disagreeing with something I haven't said.)

Take a simple example from those you give above, like intelligent design. As you know, in its simplest form this argument goes "the earth is only a few thousand years old, but God has created it so that it looks like its actually millions of years old. Why? To test our faith! And yes, scientists fail this test." Can you disprove that? No, nobody can, just as nobody can disprove the theory that we are all microbes in a dewdrop at the end of a giant's nose. So it is a possible theory.

You are entitled to your opinion that creationism, intelligent design, and monotheistic religion generally is specious crap. You are entitled to your opinion that (say) intelligent design is at best disingenuous (having your theological cake and eating it), at worse a paper thin attempt to defend the indefensible. You are entitled to your opinion that there are none so blind as those who will not see. I may even share those views myself. This does not mean others are not entitled to adhere to other opinions or beliefs.

For my part, whatever personal beliefs I hold about creationism, God and the universe generally, I try not to do is ram my opinions down the throats of others who perhaps have not had the benefits of my education or background. Nor, in relation to an issue which simply cannot be resolved by debate or by the use of emprical evidence, do I think that ridiculing the beliefs of others is in any way a productive use of anyone's time.

Quite a lot of people who have posted on the religion threads on both sides of the debate seem to have a remarkable lack of tolerance for the beliefs or opinions of others. I find that disappointing.

Damocles, are you seriously saying that you reject the entitlement of anybody to hold any belief other than yours on the grounds that it is crap?

Are we supposed to respect the views of far right christians that all who do not believe the same as they do, will and should burn in hell?

Are we supposed to respect the beliefs of muslim extremists that all nons muslims either convert to islam or die?

If people hold beliefs that are dangerous, religious beliefs are(by the nature of their cults teachings) dangerous, and as so, they deserve the amount of respect they do not get.

 

[Chris in London]

Are we supposed to respect the views of far right christians that all who do not believe the same as they do, will and should burn in hell?

Are we supposed to respect the beliefs of muslim extremists that all nons muslims either convert to islam or die?

If people hold beliefs that are dangerous, , and religious beliefs are(by the nature of their cults teachings) dangerousas so, they deserve the amount of respect they do not get.

the comments I have made lately in this thread have not been about religion, they have been about tolerance, extending courtesy to others and respect for the views of other people. I appear to be in a minority (at least in this thread) in thinking these things are important in a civilised society.

Are you seriously saying that because some fruitcakes think it is okay to wage jihad against the west, Islam is of necessity a bad thing and we should not respect the views or beliefs of any moslems (including, say, the one who owns our football club) who hold that faith? Are you seriously saying that all religions are cults and therefore dangerous? if that is genuinely your view, that all religion is dangerous and should therefore be suppressed, that sort of makes the point about tolerance for me.

In terms of the other examples you give, No is the answer, but that is nothing to do with the fact that those people have religious beliefs and everything to do with the fact that they choose to believe that their religious teachings authorise the sort of hate-campaigns you identify. That is not a flaw of their religion (else all moslems would hold the same view, and all christians would hold the same view) it is a product of their individual interpretations of their faith.

By the same yardstick, is it a legitimate political position that Ireland should be a united island? Yes, plainly it is - if by peaceful means you can persuade the majority of the poulation of Northern Ireland that they should unify with the Republic, why shouldn't some of the people who live there wish for that? Does that legitimate desire justify terrorist activity to achieve it? No, of course not. But not all people who believe that Ireland should be united are terrorists, and there is no problem IMO with respecting (a) the desire to achieve a united Ireland (even if you don't agree with it) or (b) those who wish to achieve a united Ireland and go peacefully about achieving it without respecting or tolerating (c) those who kill, main, murder or engage in other terrorist acts to achieve their ends.

 

[SWP's back]

Are we supposed to respect the views of far right christians that all who do not believe the same as they do, will and should burn in hell?

Are we supposed to respect the beliefs of muslim extremists that all nons muslims either convert to islam or die?

If people hold beliefs that are dangerous, , and religious beliefs are(by the nature of their cults teachings) dangerousas so, they deserve the amount of respect they do not get.

the comments I have made lately in this thread have not been about religion, they have been about tolerance, extending courtesy to others and respect for the views of other people. I appear to be in a minority (at least in this thread) in thinking these things are important in a civilised society.

Are you seriously saying that because some fruitcakes think it is okay to wage jihad against the west, Islam is of necessity a bad thing and we should not respect the views or beliefs of any moslems (including, say, the one who owns our football club) who hold that faith? Are you seriously saying that all religions are cults and therefore dangerous? if that is genuinely your view, that all religion is dangerous and should therefore be suppressed, that sort of makes the point about tolerance for me.

In terms of the other examples you give, No is the answer, but that is nothing to do with the fact that those people have religious beliefs and everything to do with the fact that they choose to believe that their religious teachings authorise the sort of hate-campaigns you identify. That is not a flaw of their religion (else all moslems would hold the same view, and all christians would hold the same view) it is a product of their individual interpretations of their faith.

By the same yardstick, is it a legitimate political position that Ireland should be a united island? Yes, plainly it is - if by peaceful means you can persuade the majority of the poulation of Northern Ireland that they should unify with the Republic, why shouldn't some of the people who live there wish for that? Does that legitimate desire justify terrorist activity to achieve it? No, of course not. But not all people who believe that Ireland should be united are terrorists, and there is no problem IMO with respecting (a) the desire to achieve a united Ireland (even if you don't agree with it) or (b) those who wish to achieve a united Ireland and go peacefully about achieving it without respecting or tolerating (c) those who kill, main, murder or engage in other terrorist acts to achieve their ends.

Why should anyone's beliefs when proven to be a complete falsehood (as evidenced in the OP) be deserving of respect? There are tens millions in Middle East who believe that women who commit adultery should be put to death, by your yardstick I should be respectful of that belief also.

 

[Anonymous]

It's a matter of common courtesy, really.

You're talking to fundamentalist atheists like Damocles and Swp's Back. Common courtesy is not in their sphere of higher understanding when it comes to other peoples religious beliefs.

 

[Chris in London]

Are we supposed to respect the views of far right christians that all who do not believe the same as they do, will and should burn in hell?

Are we supposed to respect the beliefs of muslim extremists that all nons muslims either convert to islam or die?

If people hold beliefs that are dangerous, , and religious beliefs are(by the nature of their cults teachings) dangerousas so, they deserve the amount of respect they do not get.

the comments I have made lately in this thread have not been about religion, they have been about tolerance, extending courtesy to others and respect for the views of other people. I appear to be in a minority (at least in this thread) in thinking these things are important in a civilised society.

Are you seriously saying that because some fruitcakes think it is okay to wage jihad against the west, Islam is of necessity a bad thing and we should not respect the views or beliefs of any moslems (including, say, the one who owns our football club) who hold that faith? Are you seriously saying that all religions are cults and therefore dangerous? if that is genuinely your view, that all religion is dangerous and should therefore be suppressed, that sort of makes the point about tolerance for me.

In terms of the other examples you give, No is the answer, but that is nothing to do with the fact that those people have religious beliefs and everything to do with the fact that they choose to believe that their religious teachings authorise the sort of hate-campaigns you identify. That is not a flaw of their religion (else all moslems would hold the same view, and all christians would hold the same view) it is a product of their individual interpretations of their faith.

By the same yardstick, is it a legitimate political position that Ireland should be a united island? Yes, plainly it is - if by peaceful means you can persuade the majority of the poulation of Northern Ireland that they should unify with the Republic, why shouldn't some of the people who live there wish for that? Does that legitimate desire justify terrorist activity to achieve it? No, of course not. But not all people who believe that Ireland should be united are terrorists, and there is no problem IMO with respecting (a) the desire to achieve a united Ireland (even if you don't agree with it) or (b) those who wish to achieve a united Ireland and go peacefully about achieving it without respecting or tolerating (c) those who kill, main, murder or engage in other terrorist acts to achieve their ends.

Why should anyone's beliefs when proven to be a complete falsehood (as evidenced in the OP) be deserving of respect? There are tens millions in Middle East who believe that women who commit adultery should be put to death, by your yardstick I should be respectful of that belief also.

You'll have to explain that one because it seems to be the very opposite of the view I hold. I respect the right of others to follow whatever faith they choose, and tolerate that faith even though I do not share it myself. I do not respect the right of anyone to force their views on others, especially to the point you mention.