Louisiana Science Textbook

[SWP's back]

Teaching children that the world is 10,000 years old and that dinosaur bones are put there by God to test faith is tantamount to child abuse in my opinion and I am sure you do not believe parents should be free to abuse their children however they see fit.

It's not tantamount to child abuse. As I'm sure anyone who was genuinely abused as a child could and would attest to.

And to think you were one of the first to get your knickers in a twist when Dave used the word holocaust.

It is Billy. It shapes and distorts their whole world view for life. And it is funny you say that as Fetlocks agrees with me entirely on this point. There are also more than one way to abuse a child than physically.

Of course you will disagree, you were indoctrinated. Me saying that makes you face that fact.

 

[Chris in London]

[So you respect the right of the makers of that wholly inaccurate textbook to promote teaching that is 100% incorrect?

And you respect the right of parents to be part of the indoctrination process of their children at an impressionable age *waves to Billy.

A bit of a tangent, but since you ask, Yes I do respect that right.

Free speech is easy when you are agreeing with the majority. Freedom of expression is not a problem when everyone is saying the same thing. These fundamental freedoms only become valuable where a majority view threatens to suffocate minorities. I don't agree with any of the crap in the book Damocles has copied, but by God (pardon the expression) I will fight to the death for their right to believe it.

So yes, I respect is the right of other people in another country to run their lives in a different way to the way I run mine. I can't really believe, when you boil this down to its essentials, that you have a different view (despite the cheap shot taken at you above).

It follows that I must respect the right of those others to bring up their children however they think fit, within the laws of their land. I do not bring up mine in the same way.

Do I think the world is a better place for the publication of this sort of fundamentalist crap? No, not at all. Do I think it worrying that in the United States of America creationism is taught as not just something that some people believe but as a viable plausible alternative to evolutionary theory? It frightens the shit out of me that someone who believes this could one day be the Leader Of The Free World.

But that's the point, you see - it's a Free World. Unfortunately, protecting the freedoms that make it such involves sticking your neck out from time to time for things you don#'t believe in as well as what you do.

I think this boils down to this, you believe parents are free to bring up their children however they wish. I believe that children should be protected, where possible, and certainly at school from irrational indoctrination.

A child is a sponge, evolutionarily programmed to believe what they are told by figures of authority at a young age. (Why are the majority of us City fans etc) Teaching children that the world is 10,000 years old and that dinosaur bones are put there by God to test faith is tantamount to child abuse in my opinion and I am sure you do not believe parents should be free to abuse their children however they see fit.

Almost.

I believe in the right of parents to bring up children how they wish within the laws of the land where they live. In most civilised countries, this precludes abuse of children.

The problem is that what one person considers abusive, another considers culturally significant. Personally, I think that it is abusive to cut the end off a kid's dick when they are only days old, but I recognise entirely that others see the matter differently.

I agree with you entirely that it is essentially dangerous to teach children this sort of idiotic shite as though it was some sort of equally plausible theory of why the world is here in the shape that it is. But from what I understand of it, the people of Louisiana think differently.

It's their state, they're entitled to.

 

[Skashion]

It is Billy. It shapes and distorts their whole world view for life. And it is funny you say that as Fetlocks agrees with me entirely on this point. There are also more than one way to abuse a child than physically.

Of course you will disagree, you were indoctrinated. Me saying that makes you face that fact.

You're also indoctrinated though. You're a fundamentalist atheist. You fundamentally hold the natural position of not believing in something for which there is no evidence.

 

[Manchester33]

Just as bad as people teaching the theory of evolution as being a 'provable certainty' at the end of the day we will never know what the real truth is. I personally can't stand people telling me they 'KNOW' evolution is true, it's just as bad as people telling me god definitely created the world!

Some people need to remember having faith in science is also like having a religion and the way some people who believe in science talk about religion is shocking!

 

[Anonymous]

It is Billy. It shapes and distorts their whole world view for life. And it is funny you say that as Fetlocks agrees with me entirely on this point. There are also more than one way to abuse a child than physically.

Of course you will disagree, you were indoctrinated. Me saying that makes you face that fact.

Hahaha. The only fact I'm facing is your raging hypocrisy, your continued arrogance, and your unrivalled ignorance about me, my beliefs, why they exist in me, and who I am as a person.

Enjoy the rest of the thread.

 

[Skashion]

Just as bad as people teaching the theory of evolution as being a 'provable certainty' at the end of the day we will never know what the real truth is. I personally can't stand people telling me they 'KNOW' evolution is true, it's just as bad as people telling me god definitely created the world!

Some people need to remember having faith in science is also like having a religion and the way some people who believe in science talk about religion is shocking!

That's because you're ignorant. We can observe evolution: <a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_lo ... experiment</a>

 

[SWP's back]

A bit of a tangent, but since you ask, Yes I do respect that right.

Free speech is easy when you are agreeing with the majority. Freedom of expression is not a problem when everyone is saying the same thing. These fundamental freedoms only become valuable where a majority view threatens to suffocate minorities. I don't agree with any of the crap in the book Damocles has copied, but by God (pardon the expression) I will fight to the death for their right to believe it.

So yes, I respect is the right of other people in another country to run their lives in a different way to the way I run mine. I can't really believe, when you boil this down to its essentials, that you have a different view (despite the cheap shot taken at you above).

It follows that I must respect the right of those others to bring up their children however they think fit, within the laws of their land. I do not bring up mine in the same way.

Do I think the world is a better place for the publication of this sort of fundamentalist crap? No, not at all. Do I think it worrying that in the United States of America creationism is taught as not just something that some people believe but as a viable plausible alternative to evolutionary theory? It frightens the shit out of me that someone who believes this could one day be the Leader Of The Free World.

But that's the point, you see - it's a Free World. Unfortunately, protecting the freedoms that make it such involves sticking your neck out from time to time for things you don#'t believe in as well as what you do.

I think this boils down to this, you believe parents are free to bring up their children however they wish. I believe that children should be protected, where possible, and certainly at school from irrational indoctrination.

A child is a sponge, evolutionarily programmed to believe what they are told by figures of authority at a young age. (Why are the majority of us City fans etc) Teaching children that the world is 10,000 years old and that dinosaur bones are put there by God to test faith is tantamount to child abuse in my opinion and I am sure you do not believe parents should be free to abuse their children however they see fit.

Almost.

I believe in the right of parents to bring up children how they wish within the laws of the land where they live. In most civilised countries, this precludes abuse of children.

The problem is that what one person considers abusive, another considers culturally significant. Personally, I think that it is abusive to cut the end off a kid's dick when they are only days old, but I recognise entirely that others see the matter differently.

I agree with you entirely that it is essentially dangerous to teach children this sort of idiotic shite as though it was some sort of equally plausible theory of why the world is here in the shape that it is. But from what I understand of it, the people of Louisiana think differently.

It's their state, they're entitled to.

The laws of the land change throughout the ages. As an example, the age of consent is now 16 (I agree with that I think though I didn't when I was shagging earlier), it used to be 12 and before that 9. The age of consent is 13 in Spain now and 18 in some US states but it was 10 not even 130 years ago.

Laws of the land are arbitrary and I don't necessarily agree with things, just because they are law in any one country (see capital punishment in the States and stoning for adulterers in Saudi) and I reserve the right to mock and not respect views that I find idiotic or morally abhorrent without feeling I should extend respect and common courtesy because of some fallacious sense of argumentum ad populum.<br /><br />-- Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:10 pm --<br /><br />

It is Billy. It shapes and distorts their whole world view for life. And it is funny you say that as Fetlocks agrees with me entirely on this point. There are also more than one way to abuse a child than physically.

Of course you will disagree, you were indoctrinated. Me saying that makes you face that fact.

You're also indoctrinated though. You're a fundamentalist atheist. You fundamentally hold the natural position of not believing in something for which there is no evidence.

Haha, I know you are beinh funny but I am not indoctrinated though, a CoE primary school and LRGS which describes itself as an "independent state school" with a "mixed" religious background.

If anything, I was given a typical Christian (CoE) schooling but I opted out of church on Wednesdays at the start of the 3rd year.

 

[SWP's back]

Just as bad as people teaching the theory of evolution as being a 'provable certainty' at the end of the day we will never know what the real truth is. I personally can't stand people telling me they 'KNOW' evolution is true, it's just as bad as people telling me god definitely created the world!

Some people need to remember having faith in science is also like having a religion and the way some people who believe in science talk about religion is shocking!

Evolution as a process IS proven. It is not a theory in the lay person definition of the word.

<a class="postlink" href="http://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/summdata.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/summdata.html</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.pnas.org/content/100/3/1072.short" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.pnas.org/content/100/3/1072.short</a>

You have no idea what you are talking about. Go back, read from the beginning of the thread, particularly damocles's posts, learn about what science is then come back and have another go.<br /><br />-- Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:16 pm --<br /><br />

It is Billy. It shapes and distorts their whole world view for life. And it is funny you say that as Fetlocks agrees with me entirely on this point. There are also more than one way to abuse a child than physically.

Of course you will disagree, you were indoctrinated. Me saying that makes you face that fact.

Hahaha. The only fact I'm facing is your raging hypocrisy, your continued arrogance, and your unrivalled ignorance about me, my beliefs, why they exist in me, and who I am as a person.

Enjoy the rest of the thread.

Laugh it up. I am not interested in who you are as a person in the slightest. You referenced me in this thread, now run back off with that tail firmly between your legs.

You follow the religion that you were brought up in, why do you think that is?

 

[Manchester33]

Just as bad as people teaching the theory of evolution as being a 'provable certainty' at the end of the day we will never know what the real truth is. I personally can't stand people telling me they 'KNOW' evolution is true, it's just as bad as people telling me god definitely created the world!

Some people need to remember having faith in science is also like having a religion and the way some people who believe in science talk about religion is shocking!

That's because you're ignorant. We can observe evolution: <a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_lo ... experiment</a>

No you're ignorant, you focus on the thing that are provable, you don't take into consideration that there are two types of evolution: micro evolution, in which a species evolves within itself through mutation, this is provable e.g humans becoming taller over the years.

The other type of evolution, macro evolution, is the concept that one animal can reproduce and then give birth to another species. E.g a lizard giving birth to a pigeon. This cannot be proved. No one has ever found the missing link it never will be found because It's scientifically impossible.

There are so many things that can prove evolution wrong but people choose not to educate themselves about it. Every concept on how we came to this planet can be disputed so for fundamental evolutionists to slate religious people as being crazy or mental is laughable because you're the same.

 

[Anonymous]

Laugh it up. I am not interested in who you are as a person in the slightest. You referenced me in this thread, now run back off with that tail firmly between your legs.

You follow the religion that you were brought up in, why do you think that is?

To be honest I've no interest in discussing my beliefs with you. You've proven yourself time and time again to be an arrogant ignorant intolerant fool when it comes to discussions about religion (much like Damocles). Personally I find your views are always borderline offensive and just as I rarely engaged BB2.0 except to tell him what a racist I thought he was, I equally engaged you in a manner of speaking to let you know what I thought. I'll leave those with greater patience than me try and get you to see the error of your ways. I just wanted to let you and Damo know that i'm watching ... :)