Lyon CL QF Post-Match Thread

[Astrozombie]

I think Pep was thinking about the big picture including possible games against Bayern and PSG, and not just about Lyon. And that wasn't a mistake either. Why?

Because we can't play with high pressing and intensity every 4 days. Against Real we covered 112km and made a lot of sprints. We can't play 3 games like the one vs Madrid over just 10 days.

To beat Lyon and stand a chance against Bayern and then PSG, we had to be as fresh as possible, especially given that both Bayern and PSG/Leipzig have more rest than us.

That's one of the reasons why Pep tried a more economical way to play and beat Lyon, in order to have legs and stand a chance against Bayern. It was obvious to the eye that we played with less intensity than against Real.

That was a calculated risk but it backfired because of individual mistakes on our part and VAR. Truth is VAR was decisive for the outcome, not just our performance.

So, I tend to be less critical of Pep now than after the game. The objective wasn't just to beat Lyon but to beat them in a manner that gives us the best chance to win the tournament. Management of resources was necessary. Still, Pep should have made changes earlier and sub not just Ferna but also one frim Rodri/Gundy and bring on Foden and Bernardo.

Hindsight is easy though. Pep's just human. I'm grateful for what he has done for City. Centurions and domestic treble winners: feats that have never been achieved before and might not get emulated soon as well.

Great post, thanks mate!

 

[FCBarca]

No you don't but Pep selected Gundogan, Rodri, Fernandinho is 35. And I think that you can play 1 or 2 max with the right team mates. They are good players but you can't play 3 of this type together and not pay dearly for it. We have seen this again and again throughout this season.

Do you believe this was the crux of the problem on the night or the poor finishing? First half, I would concur that the setup wasn't working. He adjusted and things changed dramatically, save for the errors - errors I contend Pep can have little to do with

I think to what KDB said post match, I don't believe it's so much a question of the tactics or setup but the failure to execute. These cycles in football tend to need revitalizing every 3-4 years else stagnation creeps in, I see a reliance on Kun to score goals and I suspect changes are coming to your squad even if Foden will get his chance to be a regular fixture in the XI

 

[Craig]

I think Pep was thinking about the big picture including possible games against Bayern and PSG, and not just about Lyon. And that wasn't a mistake either. Why?

Because we can't play with high pressing and intensity every 4 days. Against Real we covered 112km and made a lot of sprints. We can't play 3 games like the one vs Madrid over just 10 days.

To beat Lyon and stand a chance against Bayern and then PSG, we had to be as fresh as possible, especially given that both Bayern and PSG/Leipzig have more rest than us.

That's one of the reasons why Pep tried a more economical way to play and beat Lyon, in order to have legs and stand a chance against Bayern. It was obvious to the eye that we played with less intensity than against Real.

That was a calculated risk but it backfired because of individual mistakes on our part and VAR. Truth is VAR was decisive for the outcome, not just our performance.

So, I tend to be less critical of Pep now than after the game. The objective wasn't just to beat Lyon but to beat them in a manner that gives us the best chance to win the tournament. Management of resources was necessary. Still, Pep should have made changes earlier and sub not just Ferna but also one from Rodri/Gundy and bring on Foden and Bernardo.

Hindsight is easy though. Pep's just human. I'm grateful for what he has done for City. Centurions and domestic treble winners: feats that have never been achieved before and might not get emulated soon as well.

We were tired from a game 7 days ago were we? Is that why he didn’t make a 2nd sub with 5 available until the 84th minute and kept 2 of our fittest and most energetic players on the bench? He wasn’t thinking about Bayern he respected Lyon far too much. Said himself he played 3 at the back because his centre backs are slow and they had 2 quick forwards. Why the fuck he didn’t stick his fastest and best one on one defender in the right side of the 3 instead playing him as a wing back where he offered nothing going forwards is just another mind blowing decision.

Only way to beat Bayern is with high energy players and by attacking them. Not sitting back with a poor defence and a midfield of 2 plodders. Unfortunately in the champions league Pep losses his bollocks and plenty of games in the knockouts because of it.

 

[skyblues]

I think Pep was thinking about the big picture including possible games against Bayern and PSG, and not just about Lyon. And that wasn't a mistake either. Why?

Because we can't play with high pressing and intensity every 4 days. Against Real we covered 112km and made a lot of sprints. We can't play 3 games like the one vs Madrid over just 10 days.

To beat Lyon and stand a chance against Bayern and then PSG, we had to be as fresh as possible, especially given that both Bayern and PSG/Leipzig have more rest than us.

That's one of the reasons why Pep tried a more economical way to play and beat Lyon

Very good point and I think it made a lot of sense to save the energy for Bayern and the final. He probably played that midfield hoping it would be enough to pass the ball around and create chances, but also defend when getting countered.

Out of those three games, this was the only opponent where we could save energy by playing a less energetic team.
On the other hand, if we had younger and more energetic players (Aouar instead of Gundogan, Bennacer instead of Fernandinho) we probably would have felt less of that energy drop. But I think Pep should have known better than playing Gundo, Rodri and Ferna, all three of them missing that pace and energy in midfield.

Peps intentions are good but it’s not enough.

 

[bluemoon32]

Loads of abuse from my work mates, can't even fire anything back to be honest.
Just one of those times when you have to shrug your shoulders and take the hit.
Cvnts

 

[qshot989]

I think this year has been our best opportunity for a while to finally win the CL or at least reach the final and it got me thinking, do you guys genuinely feel that Pep will ever achieve CL glory for us now? I'm not so sure he will anymore that isn't to say I think we should replace him or anything as that would be ridiculous but as we understand it when the owners brought him in that was at the top of the list and how long will they wait considering all of the investment they have made into the team.

 

[alexmcity]

We were tired from a game 7 days ago were we? Is that why he didn’t make a 2nd sub with 5 available until the 84th minute and kept 2 of our fittest and most energetic players on the bench? He wasn’t thinking about Bayern he respected Lyon far too much. Said himself he played 3 at the back because his centre backs are slow and they had 2 quick forwards. Why the fuck he didn’t stick his fastest and best one on one defender in the right side of the 3 instead playing him as a wing back where he offered nothing going forwards is just another mind blowing decision.

Only way to beat Bayern is with high energy players and by attacking them. Not sitting back with a poor defence and a midfield of 2 plodders. Unfortunately in the champions league Pep losses his bollocks and plenty of games in the knockouts because of it.

We weren't tired, just economical because the game with Bayern and then the final would have required enormous physical efforts on our part.

Since we have obvious problems at CB, we are at our best when we defend from the front like we did vs Madrid. But that's an energy very demanding way of defending and we can't do it every 4 days.

I wish Pep had experimented with Walker at CB. But the experiment might have been disastrous. The problem with Walker is that his awareness and positional discipline are not his strongest sides and they are crucial for CBs. It was Walker who played Lyon's forward on for the first goal and it was him who nearly gave a pen away in the 2nd half.

Subs could/should have been done earlier. Pep isn't faultless. Still one of the very best managers though, not just now but in history.

 

[Grassland Blue]

What a shitty send off for Merlin.

That is the player I feel most sorry for.
What was Pep thinking, picking that team?
Why did he do that?
I have a rag friend who thought that the match was fixed. UEFA, CAS etc.

 

[Craig]

We weren't tired, just economical because the game with Bayern and then the final would have required enormous physical efforts on our part.

Since we have obvious problems at CB, we are at our best when we defend from the front like we did vs Madrid. But that's an energy very demanding way of defending and we can't do it every 4 days.

I wish Pep had experimented with Walker at CB. But the experiment might have been disastrous. The problem with Walker is that his awareness and positional discipline are not his strongest sides and they are crucial for CBs. It was Walker who played Lyon's forward on for the first goal and it was him who nearly gave a pen away in the 2nd half.

Subs could/should have been done earlier. Pep isn't faultless. Still one of the very best managers though, not just now but in history.

What he did was utterly ridiculous mate and was unfortunately typical of what he’s been doing since 2014 in big champions league games. You can’t be planning for a game in 4 days when it’s a knockout game in the champions league over one leg. Especially against a side who’ve caused us problems before and after we’ve lost so many games this season against very average sides. He needs to grow a set or he’ll continue to fail in the champions league. It’s happened for too long now for there to be any excuse. The history of him doing this stands out like a sore thumb.

I mean if he was thinking of Bayern(don’t believe that myself) was he still thinking of that game on 60 minutes when we were seriously in the shit at 1-0 down? Or with at least 15 left at 2-1 down? Is that why he didn’t bring the brilliant youngster on who is capable of creating or scoring out of nothing? Mind blowing ineptitude from Pep and another great opportunity wasted.

 

[Marvin]

These are the playing states for Bernardo this season:

Season-----Minutes Played
2019/20-------2031
2018/19-------2853

A few people have suggested that Pep had to play two defensive midfielders because we couldn't go gung-ho with Bayern pending but I don't buy this. Bernardo has played a lot less football this season. The decision to go with Rodri and Gundogan is a general trend where sitting midfielders have been prioritised ahead of an offensive midfielder.

I think this maybe due to fear over the defence but in the semi-final we started with Laporte and Garcia so that was a decent partnership. Perhaps Pep does this because he is not convinced by Rodri defensively. I am not either.

It was clear overkill to go with 3 central defenders and play Gundogan and Rodri. I think Pep had considered how we lost to Lyon last time and focused on the defensive aspect of our game. Even if this was legitimate, the early goal should have led to a tactical change. It didn't happen until the 2nd half.

Pep made a mistake in his overly cautious approach.

Do you believe this was the crux of the problem on the night or the poor finishing? First half, I would concur that the setup wasn't working. He adjusted and things changed dramatically, save for the errors - errors I contend Pep can have little to do with

I think to what KDB said post match, I don't believe it's so much a question of the tactics or setup but the failure to execute. These cycles in football tend to need revitalizing every 3-4 years else stagnation creeps in, I see a reliance on Kun to score goals and I suspect changes are coming to your squad even if Foden will get his chance to be a regular fixture in the XI

I think Pep has been struggling for much of the season trying to protect the central defence. We didn't replace Kompany and then Laporte got injured. That was a real problem and not down to Pep.

One thing that has not worked has been Rodri as the deep midfielder. He's not mobile. We used to play with Barry there, and he was slow too but that worked well. Maybe pace was not an issue then because the game was slower? Whatever the reason, instead of playing one defensive sitting midfielder (Fernandinho) we frequently play Rodri and Gundogan and it regularly unbalances us.

I think we had a huge problem at the start of the season with Laporte's injury but he returned but thereafter City did not pick up as I expected. I think we should have utilised Bernardo and Foden a lot more than we did.

 

[Keeper!]

We weren't tired, just economical because the game with Bayern and then the final would have required enormous physical efforts on our part.

Since we have obvious problems at CB, we are at our best when we defend from the front like we did vs Madrid. But that's an energy very demanding way of defending and we can't do it every 4 days.

I wish Pep had experimented with Walker at CB. But the experiment might have been disastrous. The problem with Walker is that his awareness and positional discipline are not his strongest sides and they are crucial for CBs. It was Walker who played Lyon's forward on for the first goal and it was him who nearly gave a pen away in the 2nd half.

Subs could/should have been done earlier. Pep isn't faultless. Still one of the very best managers though, not just now but in history.

What about the run in 2018/19 incredible intensity , having to play every 3 days, having to win every game, muck or bust.
We have just come of a break for covid, played Real over a week ago, training in the sun, 5 substitutes.
Go and get the result against Lyon then worry about the condition of the players, IF we had gone full tilt on Lyon with our strongest side the game could have been over at half time, then use the subs to rest players with Bayern in mind.
I agree with your assessment but it also paints a picture of total arrogance if true on Pep.

 

[alexmcity]

What he did was utterly ridiculous mate and was unfortunately typical of what he’s been doing since 2014 in big champions league games. You can’t be planning for a game in 4 days when it’s a knockout game in the champions league over one leg. Especially against a side who’ve caused us problems before and after we’ve lost so many games this season against very average sides. He needs to grow a set or he’ll continue to fail in the champions league. It’s happened for too long now for there to be any excuse. The history of him doing this stands out like a sore thumb.

I mean if he was thinking of Bayern(don’t believe that myself) was he still thinking of that game on 60 minutes when we were seriously in the shit at 1-0 down? Or with at least 15 left at 2-1 down? Is that why he didn’t bring the brilliant youngster on who is capable of creating or scoring out of nothing? Mind blowing ineptitude from Pep and another great opportunity wasted.

Let's not pretend though that VAR played no role in our CL failings over the last 3 seasons. We are playing against the referees too. Small things matter. Llorente's handball, 2 inches offsides, fouls in attack, e.g. the one against Laporte for Lyon's 2nd. If all those small things went our way, we'd have been victorious.

Yes, we weren't good against Lyon. We should have done better, both in defence and attack. But VAR striked again. Their 2nd involved both an obvious foul on Laporte and at least a 50/50 offside situation. If that was a City attack, the goal wouldn't have stood. Have you doubts about that?

 

[domalino]

One thing that has not worked has been Rodri as the deep midfielder. He's not mobile. We used to play with Barry there, and he was slow too but that worked well. Maybe pace was not an issue then because the game was slower? Whatever the reason, instead of playing one defensive sitting midfielder (Fernandinho) we frequently play Rodri and Gundogan and it regularly unbalances us.

I think we had a huge problem at the start of the season with Laporte's injury but he returned but thereafter City did not pick up as I expected. I think we should have utilised Bernardo and Foden a lot more than we did.

The issue with Rodri is not him specifically, it's Rodri and Gundogan.

If you want to play with a Rodri type, who presses really aggressively up the pitch, he's going to get bypassed if you don't have a good press up front.

Pep realised Silva didn't have the legs up front to do the pressing anymore, so he tried to go Rodri, Gundogan to stop us getting caught too high up, with Gundo often deeper than Rodri, but able to take 150 touches a game like Silva to establish our control. The problem with that is Gudogan is so immobile.

I think if we sign Aouar, as seems the plan, then the midfield goes straight to Aouar-Rodri-KDB and we have the pressing and running up front to make Rodri work.

 

[supercity88]

The game was a combination of poor performances but primarily poor tactics. We beat Real Madrid home and away playing 4-3-3 and then, against Lyon, decide to worry about their attack. Pep clearly thought they could hurt as in the same way Arsenal did in the Cup but forcing De Bruyne out of position to manage their counter attack is one of the most ridiculous managerial decisions Pep has ever made.

Walker is our quickest defender yet the tactics meant he was further up the pitch so couldn't get back if the ball went long. Furthermore, we weren't used to the system so our back 3 weren't holding a line well enough and in possession we weren't sure what to do.

As soon as we changed to 4-3-3 we improved and started to dominate. The issue was, that at 1-1 we were then playing gung-ho trying to win the game. We should have been more patient and disciplined and kept the balance. I said a few weeks ago, the key to the CL was that we aren't playing for 3pts in 90 minutes. The other team is out if they don't win, so we should have just kept the ball and ran them down. We had so much talent on the bench, it would have told if the game went to extra time.

However, Pep should have picked the same 11 that started v Madrid. They would have had the confidence to go and stop Lyon. Lyon are a good side but not anywhere near our level. That same 11 wins the game.

 

[alexmcity]

What about the run in 2018/19 incredible intensity , having to play every 3 days, having to win every game, muck or bust.
We have just come of a break for covid, played Real over a week ago, training in the sun, 5 substitutes.
Go and get the result against Lyon then worry about the condition of the players, IF we had gone full tilt on Lyon with our strongest side the game could have been over at half time, then use the subs to rest players with Bayern in mind.
I agree with your assessment but it also paints a picture of total arrogance if true on Pep.

Most of those games didn't require the running we did vs Madrid or were supposed to do against Bayern. It's one thing to play Bayern at their spectacular best and another Burnley, Palace, Brighton or even Spurs and Manure. Tasks of different orders.

 

[Craig]

Let's not pretend though that VAR played no role in our CL failings over the last 3 seasons. We are playing against the referees too. Small things matter. Llorente's handball, 2 inches offsides, fouls in attack, e.g. the one against Laporte for Lyon's 2nd. If all those small things went our way, we'd have been victorious.

Yes, we weren't good against Lyon. We should have done better, both in defence and attack. But VAR striked again. Their 2nd involved both an obvious foul on Laporte and at least a 50/50 offside situation. If that was a City attack, the goal wouldn't have stood. Have you doubts about that?

Not many doubts mate no because as you point out it’s happened too many times to be bad luck. The foul on Laporte would have been quite bad without VAR but it’s inexcusable with it.

 

[alexmcity]

One thing that has not worked has been Rodri as the deep midfielder. He's not mobile. We used to play with Barry there, and he was slow too but that worked well. Maybe pace was not an issue then because the game was slower? Whatever the reason, instead of playing one defensive sitting midfielder (Fernandinho) we frequently play Rodri and Gundogan and it regularly unbalances us.

I think we had a huge problem at the start of the season with Laporte's injury but he returned but thereafter City did not pick up as I expected. I think we should have utilised Bernardo and Foden a lot more than we did.

Pep played Rodri and Gundy not because Rodri wasn't good enough but because our CBs weren't good enough and we needed extra protection.

Laporte couldn't regain his best form so quickly, probably 3-4 months of regular games will be needed. Garcia and Dinho are not good enough to start for many PL teams at CB, let alone for a CL winning team.

Kompany's retirement and Laporte's bad injury fucked us over, coupled with the rapid decline of Ota and Stones' problems.

Pep's own success at finding a system that worked against Real raised the expectations enormously and people forgot we had severe problems at CB which are likely to stop us from winning the CL. Our main tool for coping with those problems was the Rodri/Gundy pairing and relentless pressing. The latter can be done with success every 5/6 days, but not every 3/4 days. If we were at our best dynamical best against Lyon, we'd have suffered against Bayern, and then had we won against Bayern, we'd have little in the tank for the final.

 

[blue oli]

It’s not the best result but FFS that’s the quarter finals of the champions league in a one off game.

Many have said you need to be the best team AND be lucky, we were not lucky in any way starting with no Kun and all the way the sterling getting a tiny bobble before he hit that ball, and the offensive VAR decision.

We have had worse games, worse results, a lot worse seasons.

Get a grip folks, finished second in the premier league, won a cup and a shield, quarterfinal in the champions league, semi final in the FA cup.

I’m as disappointed as the next city fan, but let’s not turn into that bunch from across town and moan when we don’t win everything - let’s be grateful for where we are, what we have, the players we have, players we may get, and look forward to next season positively.

But most of all - let’s remain humble and remember where we came from and the dark days - and be thankful for the ability to moan about being knocked out of the champions league in the quarterfinals ffs.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

It’s not the best result but FFS that’s the quarter finals of the champions league in a one off game.

Many have said you need to be the best team AND be lucky, we were not lucky in any way starting with no Kun and all the way the sterling getting a tiny bobble before he hit that ball, and the offensive VAR decision.

We have had worse games, worse results, a lot worse seasons.

Get a grip folks, finished second in the premier league, won a cup and a shield, quarterfinal in the champions league, semi final in the FA cup.

I’m as disappointed as the next city fan, but let’s not turn into that bunch from across town and moan when we don’t win everything - let’s be grateful for where we are, what we have, the players we have, players we may get, and look forward to next season positively.

But most of all - let’s remain humble and remember where we came from and the dark days - and be thankful for the ability to moan about being knocked out of the champions league in the quarterfinals ffs.

Exactly we go again next season.

Again give me the PL and a cup again over the UCL.

 

[FCBarca]

I think Pep has been struggling for much of the season trying to protect the central defence. We didn't replace Kompany and then Laporte got injured. That was a real problem and not down to Pep.

One thing that has not worked has been Rodri as the deep midfielder. He's not mobile. We used to play with Barry there, and he was slow too but that worked well. Maybe pace was not an issue then because the game was slower? Whatever the reason, instead of playing one defensive sitting midfielder (Fernandinho) we frequently play Rodri and Gundogan and it regularly unbalances us.

I think we had a huge problem at the start of the season with Laporte's injury but he returned but thereafter City did not pick up as I expected. I think we should have utilised Bernardo and Foden a lot more than we did.

Rodri is a new addition, I think that sort of chemistry takes a little time in general but understand that Fernandinho presents a different advantage in that role - of course the central defense concerns meant Pep preferred/trusted Fernandinho there. I think the bigger deficiency on the night was probably Gundogan, perhaps Foden might have fared better but Pep clearly didn't feel this way. I'm probably most surprised that he did not use Bernardo but again perhaps there was something in trainings that led Pep to make the selections he did none of us are privy to

I would probably concur with what critics have said that it is unusual for Pep to not impose his game on the opponent rather than adjusting to thwart strengths/weaknesses. Of course, he also lacked Kun and scoring has been an issue for City. Of course, in the end, City still could've leveled if not won the match but for poor finishing