Making a Murderer

Only watched ep1. They skip over the incident of him throwing a cat on a fire like it's just what kids do
I thought that too. Conveniently ignores the well established psychological link between people who are physically cruel to animals and those who go on to commit sexual violence. It is well known that it is a pre-cursor.
Come the end of the series I was tired by the victim complex that family have, nothing was there fault. I have no doubt that the public sympathy and outrage felt by his wrongful raope conviction emboldened him to think he could do what he wanted.
 
The original Paradise lost documentaries by HBO are a masterpiece, then Peter Jackson et al jumped on the bandwagon and made that shite that frequents Netflix...

Just watched these and all i can say is wow.

I get bent cops and lawyers desperate to climb what is a political ladder but what i cant stomach is judges, continually turning a blind eye to those in his court, effectively stitching people up and over the years, simply refusing to hear new evidence and allowing obviously innocent men to rot.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
 
Just watched these and all i can say is wow.

I get bent cops and lawyers desperate to climb what is a political ladder but what i cant stomach is judges, continually turning a blind eye to those in his court, effectively stitching people up and over the years, simply refusing to hear new evidence and allowing obviously innocent men to rot.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing

A brilliant set of documentaries, that set the benchmark in the genre...

The US judicial system has a problem second guessing original verdicts, however, this is one of the biggest miscarriages of justice you are ever likely to see.. Poor kids, in every aspect..

The original documentary, ultimately kept the case alive, but fuck me, it wasn't like criminal profiling was some new discipline. It actually took the main man who created the behavioural science unit at the FBI, for the case to be heard in it's entirety, even then by default due to 'new evidence'...
 
Just finished it
Me too.
(Anyone) Without having to watch it over again, was there any explanation /reason for the bonfire that Steven invited Brandon over for?
Seems to have been pretty much ignored until Brendans trial. Which to me was odd because that was the only thing he was ever consistent on in his, eh, mind.
 
Fucking hell, what a shocking watch that was. Watched it in 3 nights and its clearly biased toward the defense, on what the defense came up with though I just dont know how anyone can claim beyond reasonable doubt in Steven's case, that is one thing, but how the fuck was Brendan convicted? Not one piece of physical evidence against him which is a shocking state of affairs, he's not getting out for another 32 years, a 16 year old kid with learning difficulties who thought if he told them what they wanted he could go back to school, with no adult let alone a lawyer present, how can the police, FBI, prosecutors, judge and mostly that first **** of a defense lawyer and his investigator live with themselves? Too many people have too much to lose for them to ever get a fair trial in the first place, let alone now.
 
Interesting article on the show and where it went wrong..

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/25/dead-certainty?intcid=mod-most-popular

My take after reading the article, good show, but don't take everything you see as definitive.
That's a great article.

“Making a Murderer” raises serious and credible allegations of police and prosecutorial misconduct in the trials of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey. It also implies that that misconduct was malicious. That could be true; vindictive prosecutions have happened in our justice system before and they will happen again. But the vast majority of misconduct by law enforcement is motivated not by spite but by the belief that the end justifies the means—that it is fine to play fast and loose with the facts if doing so will put a dangerous criminal behind bars............

The petition points to another weakness of “Making a Murderer”: it is far more concerned with vindicating wronged individuals than with fixing the system that wronged them. The series presents Avery’s case as a one-off—a preposterous crusade by a grudge-bearing county sheriff’s department to discredit and imprison a nemesis. (Hence the ad-hominem attacks the show has inspired.) But you don’t need to have filed a thirty-six-million-dollar suit against law enforcement to be detained, denied basic rights, and have evidence planted on your person or property. Among other things, simply being black can suffice. While Avery’s story is dramatic, every component of it is sadly common. Seventy-two per cent of wrongful convictions involve a mistaken eyewitness. Twenty-seven per cent involve false confessions. Nearly half involve scientific fraud or junk science. More than a third involve suppression of evidence by police.

Those statistics reflect systemic problems. Eyewitness testimony is dangerously persuasive to juries, yet it remains admissible in courts almost without caveat. Some interrogation methods are more likely than others to produce false confessions, yet there are no national standards; fewer than half of states require interrogations to be videotaped, and all of them allow interrogators to lie to suspects. With the exception of DNA evidence (which emerged from biology, not criminology), forensic tests are laughably unscientific; no independent entity exists to establish that such tests are reliable before their results are admissible as evidence.


Those three paragraphs sum up my feelings on Making a Murderer. The show certainly doesn't prove Avery's innocence but it does reveal some horrifyingly prejudicial practices that seem to have become perfectly acceptable within the US "justice" system. Whether Avery and Dassey did or didn't do it is of secondary importance to me; it's the behaviour of almost every single person involved in ensuring their conviction that I find truly appalling.
 
That's a great article.

“Making a Murderer” raises serious and credible allegations of police and prosecutorial misconduct in the trials of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey. It also implies that that misconduct was malicious. That could be true; vindictive prosecutions have happened in our justice system before and they will happen again. But the vast majority of misconduct by law enforcement is motivated not by spite but by the belief that the end justifies the means—that it is fine to play fast and loose with the facts if doing so will put a dangerous criminal behind bars............

The petition points to another weakness of “Making a Murderer”: it is far more concerned with vindicating wronged individuals than with fixing the system that wronged them. The series presents Avery’s case as a one-off—a preposterous crusade by a grudge-bearing county sheriff’s department to discredit and imprison a nemesis. (Hence the ad-hominem attacks the show has inspired.) But you don’t need to have filed a thirty-six-million-dollar suit against law enforcement to be detained, denied basic rights, and have evidence planted on your person or property. Among other things, simply being black can suffice. While Avery’s story is dramatic, every component of it is sadly common. Seventy-two per cent of wrongful convictions involve a mistaken eyewitness. Twenty-seven per cent involve false confessions. Nearly half involve scientific fraud or junk science. More than a third involve suppression of evidence by police.

Those statistics reflect systemic problems. Eyewitness testimony is dangerously persuasive to juries, yet it remains admissible in courts almost without caveat. Some interrogation methods are more likely than others to produce false confessions, yet there are no national standards; fewer than half of states require interrogations to be videotaped, and all of them allow interrogators to lie to suspects. With the exception of DNA evidence (which emerged from biology, not criminology), forensic tests are laughably unscientific; no independent entity exists to establish that such tests are reliable before their results are admissible as evidence.


Those three paragraphs sum up my feelings on Making a Murderer. The show certainly doesn't prove Avery's innocence but it does reveal some horrifyingly prejudicial practices that seem to have become perfectly acceptable within the US "justice" system. Whether Avery and Dassey did or didn't do it is of secondary importance to me; it's the behaviour of almost every single person involved in ensuring their conviction that I find truly appalling.

Completely agree with what you have put, whilst I am not sure Avery is innocent, the phrase beyond reasonable doubt doesnt seem to have been applied and the treatment of a borderline retarded child I found abhorrent, hoodwinked into a 'confession' and convicted on the back of it, with no physical evidence linking him to the crime and a prosecutor who appeared to change how the murder was carried out in the 2 trials. Just about everyone involved in their conviction was at best misleading and at worst downright corrupt.
 
I thought that too. Conveniently ignores the well established psychological link between people who are physically cruel to animals and those who go on to commit sexual violence. It is well known that it is a pre-cursor.
Come the end of the series I was tired by the victim complex that family have, nothing was there fault. I have no doubt that the public sympathy and outrage felt by his wrongful raope conviction emboldened him to think he could do what he wanted.

While the cat incident was an utterly cuntish thing to do, and while there is a correlation between that type of behaviour and some of those that go on to kill human beings or commit sexual violence, I'd be interested to know the stats as to how many people who have killed or maimed a cat or dog then go on to commit those types of crimes. It won't be every single case, not by a long chalk.

As for your 2nd paragraph, I'm not sure how you can arrive at the conclusion that if he served 18 years for a crime he definitely did not commit then that means he developed a penchant for doing what he wanted.

I won't deny that there are red flags about Avery but there are even more red flags about the behaviour of the prosecution. As for Dassey's "confession", that isn't worth the paper it is written on. I'll also add that while the programme does give the impression of being biased towards the defence, everything we saw and heard was real and it showed the prosecution and their cronies in a shockingly bad light.
 
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A brilliant set of documentaries, that set the benchmark in the genre...

The US judicial system has a problem second guessing original verdicts, however, this is one of the biggest miscarriages of justice you are ever likely to see.. Poor kids, in every aspect..

The original documentary, ultimately kept the case alive, but fuck me, it wasn't like criminal profiling was some new discipline. It actually took the main man who created the behavioural science unit at the FBI, for the case to be heard in it's entirety, even then by default due to 'new evidence'...

Kids for cash, is a disturbing piece as well.
 

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