The perfect fumble
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Here's the official site doing a fan channely kinda thing.....
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Man City fan sites on YouTube
- Thread starter The perfect fumble
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Bilboblue
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Not a fan of @twosips then? :DYeah others are brilliant, how we laugh at Arsenal fan tv or good old Andy Tate etc, why make ourselves look like bell ends too? Hate them, that esteemed kompany seems a sound guy but I nearly throw up every time I watch a video of his zoomed in face telling me about football. No thanks
The perfect fumble
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bluethrunthru
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Just watched Ian's Vlog on YouTube - usual quality reporting in my opinion
The perfect fumble
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Just watched Ian's Vlog on YouTube - usual quality reporting in my opinion
But he gets so few hits! I could post YouTube clips of the most inane mind numbing bollocks about the rags, arse and the scousers which run to many thousands of hits and likes.
We have a much smaller fan base than the usual suspects that's true, but, and this is my opinion, there's a reluctance by ordinary blues to embrace this medium.
This is an issue close to my heart and something I've been trying to get involved in changing for a number of years.
Here's the simple truth: City fans don't have enough media outlets because the club will attempt to invade the fan space with any good ideas then refuse to promote them, City fans are generationally lost in the age group whereby many of them are too young to have money to spare or too old to support the notion of crowdfunding, and there's a stigma in the City community that anybody who tries to make money out of their content is "selling out" or lesser or "cringeworthy".
I'm lucky in that I have had a good relationship with the owners of many of the major City fan projects out there as I'm always willing to throw them some help with the technical end and have a general chinwag. Me and Ste used to bounce ideas off each other regularly (and I'm proud to say I was one of his earliest Patreons), obviously me and Ric have worked closely on Bluemoon for a decade, I've contributed and had chance to speak to Stu on City Watch and I helped Ahsan set up and get his 93:20 project off the ground. All these guys are successful to a degree in market position because they understand how to run digital projects. Cheesy I don't know but he sort of skipped ahead a bit because he had a pre-existing audience from his BBC work.
I've contributed to more things that didn't work than did unfortunately but this is the nature of the beast. Many people see these projects as fiefdoms for them to run, that they are all in competition with each other and "the other guy" is trying to "steal their business" or whatever. They don't understand that Bluemoon and 93:20, to pick two examples, are not in competition which each other and don't have 100% of the same audience. As I'm pretty highly involved with both and think I probably have a good feel of their respective communities so I can tell you that their communities are different from each other, and I'd be surprised if they share 50% of their audience. This means that on Bluemoon there are 50% of people who are right in the target audience for 93:20, that being City fans who enjoy exchanging opinions about events in the City Universe, and 50% of people who could be big parts of this community who aren't and could bring fresh voices in. It makes much more sense to work with and help each other out as projects than it does to fight and bicker. Both Ric and Ahsan understand this, in fact it was Ric who taught me this about 10 years ago.
We as a large community are currently in the stage whereby we are starting to understand that digital projects are financially viable. You need to work you fucking bollocks off and have a unique perspective or selling point, but we're learning that the City fanbase will support things that they value and want to see continue to exist. You'd be shocked at how relatively new that concept is in our community - one or two years old, and the closure of BMRisingTV due to its funding being pulled really shook a lot of confidence and faith that content creators could exist and thrive by focusing on City.
There's a space in the City community for a BMRisingTV like channel but nobody has really grabbed the concept by the throat and gone for it. We need to create more employers in the City fanbase - more people who can chuck £20 at a young student looking to break into digital media or to support a partial living wage for somebody. And we can't get people to create employment so more young content creators see no financial future in this marketplace so move onto other stuff and we never get any new content creators. The ones we have at the moment are trailblazing like the old fanzine authors did, wondering if they could make this work out for them financially. It's much easier to start a new project when you have examples of successful ones in the same space that can cross promote you, that can be held as an example of funding models, that can show the viability of the medium. Getting more financially successful projects out there, especially in the crowd funding model, should be an extreme priority for anybody who loves this community and wants to see it prosper.
Here's the simple truth: City fans don't have enough media outlets because the club will attempt to invade the fan space with any good ideas then refuse to promote them, City fans are generationally lost in the age group whereby many of them are too young to have money to spare or too old to support the notion of crowdfunding, and there's a stigma in the City community that anybody who tries to make money out of their content is "selling out" or lesser or "cringeworthy".
I'm lucky in that I have had a good relationship with the owners of many of the major City fan projects out there as I'm always willing to throw them some help with the technical end and have a general chinwag. Me and Ste used to bounce ideas off each other regularly (and I'm proud to say I was one of his earliest Patreons), obviously me and Ric have worked closely on Bluemoon for a decade, I've contributed and had chance to speak to Stu on City Watch and I helped Ahsan set up and get his 93:20 project off the ground. All these guys are successful to a degree in market position because they understand how to run digital projects. Cheesy I don't know but he sort of skipped ahead a bit because he had a pre-existing audience from his BBC work.
I've contributed to more things that didn't work than did unfortunately but this is the nature of the beast. Many people see these projects as fiefdoms for them to run, that they are all in competition with each other and "the other guy" is trying to "steal their business" or whatever. They don't understand that Bluemoon and 93:20, to pick two examples, are not in competition which each other and don't have 100% of the same audience. As I'm pretty highly involved with both and think I probably have a good feel of their respective communities so I can tell you that their communities are different from each other, and I'd be surprised if they share 50% of their audience. This means that on Bluemoon there are 50% of people who are right in the target audience for 93:20, that being City fans who enjoy exchanging opinions about events in the City Universe, and 50% of people who could be big parts of this community who aren't and could bring fresh voices in. It makes much more sense to work with and help each other out as projects than it does to fight and bicker. Both Ric and Ahsan understand this, in fact it was Ric who taught me this about 10 years ago.
We as a large community are currently in the stage whereby we are starting to understand that digital projects are financially viable. You need to work you fucking bollocks off and have a unique perspective or selling point, but we're learning that the City fanbase will support things that they value and want to see continue to exist. You'd be shocked at how relatively new that concept is in our community - one or two years old, and the closure of BMRisingTV due to its funding being pulled really shook a lot of confidence and faith that content creators could exist and thrive by focusing on City.
There's a space in the City community for a BMRisingTV like channel but nobody has really grabbed the concept by the throat and gone for it. We need to create more employers in the City fanbase - more people who can chuck £20 at a young student looking to break into digital media or to support a partial living wage for somebody. And we can't get people to create employment so more young content creators see no financial future in this marketplace so move onto other stuff and we never get any new content creators. The ones we have at the moment are trailblazing like the old fanzine authors did, wondering if they could make this work out for them financially. It's much easier to start a new project when you have examples of successful ones in the same space that can cross promote you, that can be held as an example of funding models, that can show the viability of the medium. Getting more financially successful projects out there, especially in the crowd funding model, should be an extreme priority for anybody who loves this community and wants to see it prosper.
The perfect fumble
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This is an issue close to my heart and something I've been trying to get involved in changing for a number of years.
Here's the simple truth: City fans don't have enough media outlets because the club will attempt to invade the fan space with any good ideas then refuse to promote them, City fans are generationally lost in the age group whereby many of them are too young to have money to spare or too old to support the notion of crowdfunding, and there's a stigma in the City community that anybody who tries to make money out of their content is "selling out" or lesser or "cringeworthy".
I'm lucky in that I have had a good relationship with the owners of many of the major City fan projects out there as I'm always willing to throw them some help with the technical end and have a general chinwag. Me and Ste used to bounce ideas off each other regularly (and I'm proud to say I was one of his earliest Patreons), obviously me and Ric have worked closely on Bluemoon for a decade, I've contributed and had chance to speak to Stu on City Watch and I helped Ahsan set up and get his 93:20 project off the ground. All these guys are successful to a degree in market position because they understand how to run digital projects. Cheesy I don't know but he sort of skipped ahead a bit because he had a pre-existing audience from his BBC work.
I've contributed to more things that didn't work than did unfortunately but this is the nature of the beast. Many people see these projects as fiefdoms for them to run, that they are all in competition with each other and "the other guy" is trying to "steal their business" or whatever. They don't understand that Bluemoon and 93:20, to pick two examples, are not in competition which each other and don't have 100% of the same audience. As I'm pretty highly involved with both and think I probably have a good feel of their respective communities so I can tell you that their communities are different from each other, and I'd be surprised if they share 50% of their audience. This means that on Bluemoon there are 50% of people who are right in the target audience for 93:20, that being City fans who enjoy exchanging opinions about events in the City Universe, and 50% of people who could be big parts of this community who aren't and could bring fresh voices in. It makes much more sense to work with and help each other out as projects than it does to fight and bicker. Both Ric and Ahsan understand this, in fact it was Ric who taught me this about 10 years ago.
We as a large community are currently in the stage whereby we are starting to understand that digital projects are financially viable. You need to work you fucking bollocks off and have a unique perspective or selling point, but we're learning that the City fanbase will support things that they value and want to see continue to exist. You'd be shocked at how relatively new that concept is in our community - one or two years old, and the closure of BMRisingTV due to its funding being pulled really shook a lot of confidence and faith that content creators could exist and thrive by focusing on City.
There's a space in the City community for a BMRisingTV like channel but nobody has really grabbed the concept by the throat and gone for it. We need to create more employers in the City fanbase - more people who can chuck £20 at a young student looking to break into digital media or to support a partial living wage for somebody. And we can't get people to create employment so more young content creators see no financial future in this marketplace so move onto other stuff and we never get any new content creators. The ones we have at the moment are trailblazing like the old fanzine authors did, wondering if they could make this work out for them financially. It's much easier to start a new project when you have examples of successful ones in the same space that can cross promote you, that can be held as an example of funding models, that can show the viability of the medium. Getting more financially successful projects out there, especially in the crowd funding model, should be an extreme priority for anybody who loves this community and wants to see it prosper.
That's a great post, particularly the bit about how the club crowds out any genuine fan based initiative, but how to harness the fan base is the big question, it's akin to herding cats.
mancityvstoke
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Naturally this is a topic really, really close to me, given I've been heavily involved with two of the channels on here. I was involved heavily with BMRTV for a year and I've ran my own personal channel for over a year too (esteemed kompany)...and @Damocles is spot on with a large part of that post and I want to genuinely thank him for how supportive he's been to me personally when I tried to get my channel going. He actually convinced me to push Patreon and it's been a genuine life changer for me as I can viably, without feel like i'm neglecting all friends and family, put time and effort into videos knowing that it will actually be worthwhile financially - and as much as people don't like to accept that some value the financial support... well, how many people work for hours, sometimes every day, get criticism for it often, just to create stuff to put out all for free? Not many. It makes it a lot easier from my side and it keeps me going. There's been a few times when i've nearly packed it in but I keep trying and the patreon has helped me drive onwards when I'm genuinely exhausted and don't feel like putting 5 hours on my weekend into editing a video. Basically - it supports you and keeps you going. It pays for your tickets to games too when sometimes i'd give it a miss cos i couldn't afford it. Life-changer.
I'm off the opinion that City struggle on Youtube for a few reasons:
1) City smother independent voices - they really do. To the extent of taking content ideas (they tried vlogs almost identical in tone to many fan channels, but they were sanitised so maybe didn't work as well) and not embracing fan culture like say Arsenal do. Laugh at AFTV all you want, but Arsenal regularly invite Arsenal fans onto their content to discuss things!
2) Fanbase is genuinely smaller. A lot smaller than most of our rivals. It is. You only have to look at the size of City Watch on Twitter as a barometer. A brilliantly run, highly informative news aggregator, and it's *only* at 130k on Twitter. That's the biggest City account by an absolute landslide. There are numerous United accounts well in excess of 200k, and they're largely shite. Nowhere near as polished and nowhere near as interesting. It's just there's so many fucking United fans. There really are - internationally mainly. City will get there, by our global audience is absolutely tiny comparatively. You can see it by the size of things like that. City Watch, if a United one, would have well over 500k. Easy. Just how it is.
3) We're really successful. And fans of other clubs hate us more than ever (money bitterness etc), meaning they're literally shun us cos it's quite hard to watch fans of your rivals gush praise. Look at AFTV - huge cos of schadenfreude. We're not successful enough to gain any fringe fans yet though. I think it'll be ten years before we see a whole new generation of City fans come to City. Most have already nailed their masts to some colours due to the Sky TV boom in the 90s/00s. Their kids are gonna follow their parents too, so we're fighting for scraps as there isn't really any major unexplored territories in terms of new fanbases potentially.
4) Cynicism - I think Mancs are pretty suspicious of new media to an extent. Our fanbase is a fair bit older than some i'd argue. Lots of old skool blues who really, really hate young-ish lads like me who make videos. Don't get me started on vlogs haha. The stick I've had for that....so I think there's resistance towards it all which means many shun it off the bat. And given our smaller fanbase, it means we immediately cut half of the audience off. It is how it is. So be it. If you look at London based teams I think they're a bit more open to new media stuff. It's London - not really a surprise.
There's probs more but none spring to mind. I sometimes think there won't ever be a genuinely 'big' Manchester City fan channel, unless some mad 'character' comes along that is essentially cut from the same cloth as The True Geordie, or if City totally collapse and someone gets a bunch of nutters to go on relatively contrived rants to draw in views. I'm not an exceptionally charismatic bloke. If I was a comedy genius or some passionate ranting bloke, I'd be bigger. I'm aware of this. I'm just a normal lad, relatively amiable, comfortable in camera and tech savvy. So I've done alright cos I've jumped into a gap that's there. One day there may be someone who is ten times more charismatic and entertaining who draws fans from every age group and other teams too. Walter from Blue Moon Rising is a good example, but that times ten, and probs better with digital marketing haha.
I don't think it's impossible to build a community though and I do think we don't think work together enough as @Damocles said. Put it this way, City Watch won't share my content. Never gonna happen. I'm technically a rival, I guess. They would if I worked for them, which I guess is relatively fair enough, but it's hard for me to find the time to run this channel and also contribute regularly to them. Free time is a precious commodity. The official account wouldn't even go near my content, cos I'm a rival technically. Mad, I know....If City did push people towards me it'd be a life-changing moment for my channel over night. But they won't.
I'm off the opinion that City struggle on Youtube for a few reasons:
1) City smother independent voices - they really do. To the extent of taking content ideas (they tried vlogs almost identical in tone to many fan channels, but they were sanitised so maybe didn't work as well) and not embracing fan culture like say Arsenal do. Laugh at AFTV all you want, but Arsenal regularly invite Arsenal fans onto their content to discuss things!
2) Fanbase is genuinely smaller. A lot smaller than most of our rivals. It is. You only have to look at the size of City Watch on Twitter as a barometer. A brilliantly run, highly informative news aggregator, and it's *only* at 130k on Twitter. That's the biggest City account by an absolute landslide. There are numerous United accounts well in excess of 200k, and they're largely shite. Nowhere near as polished and nowhere near as interesting. It's just there's so many fucking United fans. There really are - internationally mainly. City will get there, by our global audience is absolutely tiny comparatively. You can see it by the size of things like that. City Watch, if a United one, would have well over 500k. Easy. Just how it is.
3) We're really successful. And fans of other clubs hate us more than ever (money bitterness etc), meaning they're literally shun us cos it's quite hard to watch fans of your rivals gush praise. Look at AFTV - huge cos of schadenfreude. We're not successful enough to gain any fringe fans yet though. I think it'll be ten years before we see a whole new generation of City fans come to City. Most have already nailed their masts to some colours due to the Sky TV boom in the 90s/00s. Their kids are gonna follow their parents too, so we're fighting for scraps as there isn't really any major unexplored territories in terms of new fanbases potentially.
4) Cynicism - I think Mancs are pretty suspicious of new media to an extent. Our fanbase is a fair bit older than some i'd argue. Lots of old skool blues who really, really hate young-ish lads like me who make videos. Don't get me started on vlogs haha. The stick I've had for that....so I think there's resistance towards it all which means many shun it off the bat. And given our smaller fanbase, it means we immediately cut half of the audience off. It is how it is. So be it. If you look at London based teams I think they're a bit more open to new media stuff. It's London - not really a surprise.
There's probs more but none spring to mind. I sometimes think there won't ever be a genuinely 'big' Manchester City fan channel, unless some mad 'character' comes along that is essentially cut from the same cloth as The True Geordie, or if City totally collapse and someone gets a bunch of nutters to go on relatively contrived rants to draw in views. I'm not an exceptionally charismatic bloke. If I was a comedy genius or some passionate ranting bloke, I'd be bigger. I'm aware of this. I'm just a normal lad, relatively amiable, comfortable in camera and tech savvy. So I've done alright cos I've jumped into a gap that's there. One day there may be someone who is ten times more charismatic and entertaining who draws fans from every age group and other teams too. Walter from Blue Moon Rising is a good example, but that times ten, and probs better with digital marketing haha.
I don't think it's impossible to build a community though and I do think we don't think work together enough as @Damocles said. Put it this way, City Watch won't share my content. Never gonna happen. I'm technically a rival, I guess. They would if I worked for them, which I guess is relatively fair enough, but it's hard for me to find the time to run this channel and also contribute regularly to them. Free time is a precious commodity. The official account wouldn't even go near my content, cos I'm a rival technically. Mad, I know....If City did push people towards me it'd be a life-changing moment for my channel over night. But they won't.
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