Manchester City - tactical discussion

[Bluekiwi]

I wanna see.... Sterling Silva De Bruyne with Aguero in front

So do I - but from the start of the game not with a few minutes left

 

[inbetween]

Yeah but we did totally boss that first half. Juventus went in at half time with their tail between their legs looking almost embarrased. I think the 2nd half was more equal if not unlucky for city. The stats say we were better, it was Italian Champs lge finalists. I think the tactics were good enough.

The tactics were fine, we made chances but just didn't put them away. We can't expect to make 10+ chances in a Champions League game, you have to take what you are given and we didn't.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Think you have to have that extra man in midfield like Delph or Fernando to make us more solid.

There's enough talent with the likes of Silva, Aguero and Sterling to get a goal. We've seen that having Nasri on the field slows down the play on 2 occasions this season.

 

[Ducado]

Think you have to have that extra man in midfield like Delph or Fernando to make us more solid.

There's enough talent with the likes of Silva, Aguero and Sterling to get a goal. We've seen that having Nasri on the field slows down the play on 2 occasions this season.

Slowing down the play can have its advantages particularly when we need to hold on to a lead

 

[Crossan da Ball]

If we had put our chances away and won comfortably, then in my book the tactics were spot on. saying they could have been better is using hindsight as their friend.

Not really. I looked at Nasri on the right before the first whistle, and I thought the right hand side would be a dead end, and more vulnerable.
Apart from Fernandinho, I can't think of a City player who looked comfortable, or at his usual level. I don't think our tactics and team selection were right, let alone spot on, but each to his own view.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Slowing down the play can have its advantages particularly when we need to hold on to a lead

Nasri does help with ball retention, I would have started with Navas on Tuesday. Having two quick wide men is where we've had success this season. Full backs and the people in front of them have to be alert to the threat all the time and opens up the middle for silva to have more space.

Nasri is a Rolls Royce player but he drifted into the middle to much. Juve loved that and played compact.

If prefer it if we played a bit more cautious in Europe instead of going all out trying to win a game. Hate to say it but Chelsea didn't do too bad in 2012 doing it that way.

 

[Rolee]

Nasri does help with ball retention, I would have started with Navas on Tuesday. Having two quick wide men is where we've had success this season. Full backs and the people in front of them have to be alert to the threat all the time and opens up the middle for silva to have more space.

Nasri is a Rolls Royce player but he drifted into the middle to much. Juve loved that and played compact.

If prefer it if we played a bit more cautious in Europe instead of going all out trying to win a game. Hate to say it but Chelsea didn't do too bad in 2012 doing it that way.

Hang on, you want to go at them with pace out wide but you want us to be more cautious?

 

[Kevindxb]

One way to look at it: They chocked us in midfield. Back four had no one to pass the ball to, so Silva, Nasri and Yaya had to retreat to receive the ball and end up stuck there. Their strikers put on a great shift chasing and breaking our play before it started. They played to draw, we should have sat deep after scoring the first goal and let them come out. This would have open them up. Issue is, when you have Nasri and Bony on the field, forget counter attacks.

Other way: Our tactics were spot on. We are just shit at converting. 3 glorious misses. That Bony slashing the ball was embarrassing, and so was the frail attempt by Sterling's in 2nd half. Had any of the three chances were converted, the game would have been put to bed. Juv got very lucky with their chances, their two goals were so borderline, both hit the post to get it. Either brilliant aim or luck.

Either way, its our fault, Nacho should have started ahead of Bony and KDB ahead of Nasri. This was obvious to many of us when teams were announced. But we don't know the exact situation with the players better than the manager.

 

[Rolee]

One way to look at it: They chocked us in midfield. Back four had no one to pass the ball to, so Silva, Nasri and Yaya had to retreat to receive the ball and end up stuck there. Their strikers put on a great shift chasing and breaking our play before it started. They played to draw, we should have sat deep after scoring the first goal and let them come out. This would have open them up. Issue is, when you have Nasri and Bony on the field, forget counter attacks.

Other way: Our tactics were spot on. We are just shit at converting. 3 glorious misses. That Bony slashing the ball was embarrassing, and so was the frail attempt by Sterling's in 2nd half. Had any of the three chances were converted, the game would have been put to bed. Juv got very lucky with their chances, their two goals were so borderline, both hit the post to get it. Either brilliant aim or luck.

Either way, its our fault, Nacho should have started ahead of Bony and KDB ahead of Nasri. This was obvious to many of us when teams were announced. But we don't know the exact situation with the players better than the manager.

Nacho is not eligible to play in CL.
Nasri merited his starting spot given his performance at Palace.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

Nacho is not eligible to play in CL.
Nasri merited his starting spot given his performance at Palace.

It's only the second or third thread he's said the same thing about Kelechi, so I don't think he's going to listen to ya ;-)

 

[Dr.Faustus]

The tactical approach to the Juve game was good. The only way to play against teams which press relentlessly is with clever off the ball movement and accurate passing and it just didn't quite come off for us on the day; though we are capable of it. In spite of the pressing we created chances which were not taken and Juve were very lucky (or were they just clinical?) that their finishes were accurate.

 

[City Raider]

Well Oliver Kay has just tweeted this:

@OliverKayTimes: Crux of it: #MCFC are almost always outrun by opposition in Champs Lge. Their wins tend to happen on v rare occasions they outrun opposition

 

[Daz_Blue]

In the Champs League we need to perform a slide tackle of this quality ....or we will never win it.

 

[aguero93:20]

The tactics weren't the problem on Tuesday night, poor finishing was, plus some brilliant goalkeeping from Buffon.

 

[Luke The Blue]

So do I - but from the start of the game not with a few minutes left

Yeah that's what I meant. I don't think it's any good doing it at the end of a game especially when your chasing it.

It's like when Bony last season kept getting brought on for last 10 mins when we were chasing a game it doesn't do the player any good if they don't score within the few mins they are on, it just adds pressure.

Obviously I know he doesn't want to throw De Bruyne in straight away I can understand that. I'm just loosing my patience and wanna see it happen :)

 

[stablemcfc]

I've long been an advocate of 4-2-3-1 with 2 pacey wide wingers & your most creative player in behind the striker when you're at home or playing a team you expect to be dominant against (most matches for City).
For tough away matches, or European football, I've always been a fan of having 3 big guys in midfield to solidify the defence & dominate the midfield.

So for City specifically, last season when we made the switch to 4-2-3-1 I was delighted, I still felt we were missing a pacey winger, which we've now rectified with Sterling. This also meant Fernandinho got more protection from Yaya as Silva was ahead of him (finally central) stopping him getting too far forward, & Sergio got to play up top on his own where he performs better. After the first few games it was clear out of the front 4 Navas was just not quite good enough at the top level - for me Pedro was the perfect replacement, like-for-like but more end product - but we've got KDB now. The worry with KDB is that he ends up having the same results as the Silva-Nasri combo but we will see.

So for Europe, last season when we bought Fernando I thought we were finally going to see it, Fernando deep in front of defence with Dinho & Yaya ahead, a strong midfield with protection to the defence - yet we played 4-4-2. I still feel we should try this combo out in Europe & away at title rivals, if we need goals we can bring on game changers but there's nothing wrong with starting the game off more sensibly & Yaya would have more freedom to get up & cause damage. Not convinced we'll ever really see this under Pellegrini but just my opinions.

Why I don't think we can play 4-4-2: well, simply everyone ends up out of position. Silva starts up out wide, then comes central, which means there's no width, which leads to a striker going out wide. Yaya has so much space ahead, he just jogs into it & has never been one to get back, meaning Nando/Dinho have to do the job of 2-3 people & every team we play with 1 pass gets through our entire midfield. On top of that the Dzeko/Aguero partnership was a poor one, how often did they combine to score? Negredo formed a great partnership with Aguero, & Bony probably could do similar - but again not worth forcing all other players out of their natural position.

Specific things I don't think we can do:
• Nasri/Silva combo, too slow, too narrow & too easy to defend against. One or the other should be on the pitch (sorry Nasri).
• Nasri/Silva/KDB combo, was very surprised Pellegrini tried this out against Juve, who exactly were these great passers supposed to be passing to? None of them make runs behind. Simply do not need 3 AM's on the pitch together it's horrible.

KDB has played RW a fair chunk of his career so the hope is he plays the position more like a winger & less like Nasri - time will tell whether this works for us or not. Hopefully see the Sterling-Silva-KDB combo against West Ham so we see what happens.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

If two goals would have led anyone to applaud THAT performance as one of tactical acumen and engineering we will have to agree to differ.
Two goals would have stifled the debate, not made bad tactics good. The finishing was the difference in the scoreline, but the question is would different tactics have given us better chances? I think they would. If we had our time over again, would we play the same eleven?

Me, too. But unless the chances are converted then we are still at base camp with the same argument. The 'tactical' debate shrinks away once the game is won. Tactics only become an issue when we don't claim the victory. Had we finished the game 2-1, or 2-0 or something to nil, few would be raising the issue of tactics. We can have the shittiest of performances and still advance - tactics all up the shoot, subs way off beam, but a lucky toe, a benevolent referee and all is well.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Hang on, you want to go at them with pace out wide but you want us to be more cautious?

You can sit back on a team and be disciplined in Europe but have some legs up top that are going to cause problems on the break.

How do you beat the likes of barca, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich? We certainly can't out football them. We fall into that trap every year and get a severe bruising. Play the extra midfield spoiler infront of the back four and hope Silva and Aguero can create and opportunity and take it.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

In the Champs League we need to perform a slide tackle of this quality ....or we will never win it.

That lawn's in a shocking state! And is that ball a masterpiece of origami?

 

[lancs blue]

Think you have to have that extra man in midfield like Delph or Fernando to make us more solid.

I'm not sure we needed it from the start but I thought once we took the lead we should have brought on Fernando or Demichelis instead of Nasri to strengthen the middle defensively. We're too open at times and we're not (yet) a Barca-like team that can steamroller most opponents in Europe with out and out attacking football, if we want to succeed in the CL we need to show some pragmatism and start grinding out the odd 1-0 win. Instead we are yet again playing catch-up in the group stage, five attempts now and we still haven't won the first home game in the group stage. It's ridiculous really.