Manchester City v Liverpool 1977 and last season?

isab23502 said:
Wasn't George Wood's great performance the year after - in late winter/early spring 1978?
I remember we beat them 1-0 at MR but he kept out everything before the goal.
Amazing it was.

Seems that you're right. I've found an Everton site with line-ups. Looks like the George Wood game was the following year.

See here for the details (also set out below - sorry about the formatting) of the game on Tuesday 10 May 1977 - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.evertonresults.com/match10051977.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.evertonresults.com/match10051977.html</a>. Seems that the Wales international Dai Davies was in goal for that one.

Man City 1 - 1 Everton

at Maine Road

Tuesday 10 May 1977

1976-77 - Football League Division 1

38,004

T Book (Managers) G Lee

B Kidd 20' (Scorers) M Lyons 77'

J Corrigan (Players) D Davies
K Clements T Darracott
W Donachie M Pejic
T Booth M Lyons
D Watson K McNaught
G Owen B Rioch
P Barnes M Buckley
B Kidd M Dobson
J Royle J Pearson
A Hartford D McKenzie
D Tueart S Seargeant (A King)

From a quick scout of that site it would appear that George Wood played in two games for Everton at Maine Road. The second was a 0-0 draw in April 1979, but I think the game we're talking about is this one from February 1978 - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.evertonresults.com/match25021978.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.evertonresults.com/match25021978.html</a>

Man City 1 - 0 Everton

at Maine Road

Saturday 25 February 1978

1977-78 - Football League Division 1

46,817

T Book (Managers) G Lee

B Kidd 79' (Scorers)

J Corrigan (Players) G Wood
K Clements D Jones
W Donachie M Pejic
T Booth M Lyons
D Watson M Higgins
P Power T Ross
M Channon A King
C Bell M Dobson
B Kidd J Pearson
A Hartford D McKenzie
P Barnes G Telfer

The goal from the February 1978 game is here:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEQS6qE8Psw[/video]
 
petrusha said:
Blue Streak said:
So this season just gone was perhaps the first time we have been in direct competition with the Scousers for the title since 1977 and this time we did it. I know from stuff I've read on here previously that people think had Colin Bell not been injured we might have won the title back then? I'm interested to know from Blues that recall that season (as I was only two) do we feel a ghost has been rested?

My first game at Maine Road was during the 1975/6 season, so the 1976/7 season is the first full one I remember. Yes, I did feel that in beating Liverpool to the title we'd redressed the balance a little. That said, I took the view that it would have been disappointing to have missed out to them last season because I regarded us as being a clearly better team, whereas in 1977 Liverpool did have a really outstanding side and they won the European Cup that year as well. The fact that we came within a point of them in the end was testament to how well we did. (To be fair, we have to remember that Liverpool had one game left, which they went on to lose, after we'd completed all our fixtures. Given that they had an FA Cup final and a European Cup final to fit in and with the title already in the bag, they played a second-string side at Bristol City. If they'd had to win that game, you suspect they probably would have done).

As people have said, the point Liverpool earned through Dave Watson's late own goal to give them an undeserved 1-1 draw over Christmas at our place proved vital in the final analysis. However, there was plenty of time for us to put that right subsequently. As someone mentioned, arguably even more vital was when we went to Anfield over Easter, conceded first and were taking a bit of a pasting, indebted to Corrigan for some great saves to keep us in the game. But then we clawed our way back, equalised with around 15 minutes left and looked set for a point taht would have been a great result in the scheme of things. Then we conceded within about 30 seconds of the kick off, which was a real blow.

One thing Tony Book mentions in his autobiography, which I'd long forgotten until I read it, is the effect on Brian Kidd of criticism from Jimmy Hill on MotD. We beat Arsenal at MR in the February, which I think was our 17th straight league game unbeaten, and Kidd was in great scoring form in his first season with the club. The cameras were present and, that night, Hill lambasted the striker for being a dirty player, highlighting various incidents from the game. It was terribly unfair: Kidd was hardly an angel, but First Division football back then was a physical game and there were many worse offenders.

According to Book, Kidd was badly affected and went into his shell on the pitch, feeling unable to play his natural game under the increased scrutiny of referees. And the team's top scorer thus cowed, results suffered. The next seven league games brought only two wins and we also exited the FA Cup at Leeds. It's no accident that, if you look at the goals from this period on the excellent mcfcvideos youtube channel, you'll often hear 'Jimmy Hillis a wanker, is a wanker!' resounding loud and clear from the Kippax.

As for whether Bell would have made the difference - it's certainly a tempting hypothesis for any Blue who knows what a great player he was. Apart from a weakness at right-back (Kenny Clements, with all due respect, wasn't quite of the level of most of his team mates), we had an excellent first eleven, but the balance possibly wasn't quite right in midfield. In the first half of the season, we tended to play a three in there selected from Hartford, Jimmy Conway, Owen and Power, but the latter two were in their first full season. We were solid at the back, with Doyle and Watson an imperious partnership in front of Corrigan, but we could be a bit toothless despite having a fine front three of Royle, Kidd and Tueart; we had five goalless draws before Christmas. In the New Year, Peter Barnes, another kid, usually started in place of Power. Playing an out-and-out winger made us more of a threat in tight games, and we only had one more scoreless draw all season, but we conceded more too.

Bell was a complete midfielder: excellent in the defenseive aspects of the role, but also with the capacity to hit double figures in terms of goals. I suppose you could say that you can never be sure whether it would have been better with him in the side, because it may have affected the way we set up and other players may have been less effective, meaning that the team as a whole wouldn't have improved. However, having watched that team and knowing where I feel the weakness was, I'd be reasonably confident that a fit Colin Bell would have made the difference between first and second place.

Another point to note from Book's autobiography is that he wanted to buy Alan Ball, who was leaving Arsenal, to replace Bell. However, Peter Swales wouldn't meet the asking price for a player who was past 30 and Ball went off to Southampton. We bought Irish international Conway instead, who I think was a similar age but much cheaper. He arrived from Fulham, having worked there with Book's new coach Bill Taylor, who recommended him. Unfortunately it wasn't a successful move, with Conway failing to hold down a regular place and leaving at the end of the season. Ball was still a high class player at the time and could really have added something to the team in my view, so it was a pity we didn't sign him.

Anyway, if we focus on the team we had rather than the one we could have had, maybe we were just a little bit short of what it would have taken to overcome a great side like Liverpool - and make no mistake about it, they were. We gave it a fantastic shot and I think we'd have pulled it off with Colin available, but there you go. It may have taken 37 years, but we got our own back in the end!

An excellent summary, Petrusha.
Live long enough and we'll get revenge on all the bastards, eh?
 
kippax neil said:
I started going in April 1976, so this particular season was my first full one ....and was at this game. So great posts on here brought back so many memories.

I think it was goal average back then as well instead of goal difference. Not 100% sure, but seem to remember someone at the time saying that we had a better goal average than Liverpool and therefore would have won the title had we finished on level points.

Interestingly it seems goal difference was introduced around 1975/1976 so maybe it would have been too late for us anyway. I've never known anything other than GD (the first season I recall was 76/77) and thought GA had been dumped way before that.
 
mad4city said:
An excellent summary, Petrusha.
Live long enough and we'll get revenge on all the bastards, eh?

Thanks. And yes, we will! :)

willy eckerslike said:
kippax neil said:
I started going in April 1976, so this particular season was my first full one ....and was at this game. So great posts on here brought back so many memories.

I think it was goal average back then as well instead of goal difference. Not 100% sure, but seem to remember someone at the time saying that we had a better goal average than Liverpool and therefore would have won the title had we finished on level points.

Interestingly it seems goal difference was introduced around 1975/1976 so maybe it would have been too late for us anyway. I've never known anything other than GD (the first season I recall was 76/77) and thought GA had been dumped way before that.

It looks like 1975/6 was the last year of goal average: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1975-1976" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.statto.com/football/stats/en ... /1975-1976</a>

Goal difference seems to have applied in 1976/7 but under either system, Liverpool (62 for and 33 against) were narrowly better than us (60 for and 34 against): <a class="postlink" href="http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1976-1977/table" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.statto.com/football/stats/en ... 1977/table</a>

Had we beaten them 1-0 at Christmas instead of drawing 1-1, they'd have had 61 for and 33 against and we'd have had 60 for and 33 against, so we'd have still been worse off than them in terms of goal difference and also goal average. But we'd have had more points, so it wouldn't have mattered!
 
petrusha said:
de niro said:
I was in the kippax and remember Gary Owen dropping a clanger that led to a goal, big Joe grabbed him by the scruff of the neck, poor Gary sort of hung there like a rag doll. Funny though. Should have won it and would have done easily with the king.

Everton in the last home game, a rearranged match in the midweek before the final Saturday of the league season. He fluffed a backpass as we led 1-0 with about ten minutes left, IIRC. After drawing that one 1-1, we could still mathematically win the title - but we needed to win at Coventry on the Saturday while Liverpool had to lose at home to West Ham and away to Bristol City, and we needed a goal difference swing in our favour, too. We did win 1-0 at Coventry (through the maligned Conway, if memory serves) - but it wasn't enough, because Liverpool's 0-0 draw with West Ham meant that they were a point ahead of us after we'd completed our fixtures.

I was at Coventry... some nugget had decided to tell everybody that Liverpool had lost 2-0... we all thought we'd won the league until we got outside. Are you sureLiverpool had another game to play after West Ham? I don't remember it like that.

Liverpool won the league by 1 point... and it was the Watson OG that made the difference.
 
levets said:
petrusha said:
de niro said:
I was in the kippax and remember Gary Owen dropping a clanger that led to a goal, big Joe grabbed him by the scruff of the neck, poor Gary sort of hung there like a rag doll. Funny though. Should have won it and would have done easily with the king.

Everton in the last home game, a rearranged match in the midweek before the final Saturday of the league season. He fluffed a backpass as we led 1-0 with about ten minutes left, IIRC. After drawing that one 1-1, we could still mathematically win the title - but we needed to win at Coventry on the Saturday while Liverpool had to lose at home to West Ham and away to Bristol City, and we needed a goal difference swing in our favour, too. We did win 1-0 at Coventry (through the maligned Conway, if memory serves) - but it wasn't enough, because Liverpool's 0-0 draw with West Ham meant that they were a point ahead of us after we'd completed our fixtures.

I was at Coventry... some nugget had decided to tell everybody that Liverpool had lost 2-0... we all thought we'd won the league until we got outside. Are you sureLiverpool had another game to play after West Ham? I don't remember it like that.

Liverpool won the league by 1 point... and it was the Watson OG that made the difference.

Liverpool's fixtures are here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=1563&comp_id=1&teamTabs=results" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd ... bs=results</a>

They drew 1-1 at QPR on 7 May, when we beat Spurs 5-0. They drew 0-0 at Cov on 10 May, the Tuesday night, when we drew with Everton. They drew 0-0 with West Ham on 14 May while we were beating Cov and lost 1-2 at Bristol City on 16 May, the Monday night. Then they had the FA Cup final on Saturday 21 May, which we'll gloss over, and the European Cup final on Wednesday 25 May, where they beat Moenchengladbach.

Bristol City then drew 2-2 at Coventry on the Thursday night (19 May), which kept both of those clubs up at the expense of Sunderland, who lost 2-0 at Everton on the same night. That was the game where Jimmy Hill, chairman of Cov at the time IIRC, had the kick off delayed so that his team would know what they needed to do as the game came towards the end. When both teams knew they'd stay up with a draw, they played out the last ten minutes or so with neither side making any effort to score. The Mackems are sore about that to this day.

I suppose it wouldn't have been a given that Liverpool would have won at Bristol City on the Monday had they needed the points. After all, Bristol City needed to win to have a chance of staying up, so it was quite a tough game.
 
petrusha said:
levets said:
petrusha said:
Everton in the last home game, a rearranged match in the midweek before the final Saturday of the league season. He fluffed a backpass as we led 1-0 with about ten minutes left, IIRC. After drawing that one 1-1, we could still mathematically win the title - but we needed to win at Coventry on the Saturday while Liverpool had to lose at home to West Ham and away to Bristol City, and we needed a goal difference swing in our favour, too. We did win 1-0 at Coventry (through the maligned Conway, if memory serves) - but it wasn't enough, because Liverpool's 0-0 draw with West Ham meant that they were a point ahead of us after we'd completed our fixtures.

I was at Coventry... some nugget had decided to tell everybody that Liverpool had lost 2-0... we all thought we'd won the league until we got outside. Are you sureLiverpool had another game to play after West Ham? I don't remember it like that.

Liverpool won the league by 1 point... and it was the Watson OG that made the difference.

Liverpool's fixtures are here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=1563&comp_id=1&teamTabs=results" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd ... bs=results</a>

They drew 1-1 at QPR on 7 May, when we beat Spurs 5-0. They drew 0-0 at Cov on 10 May, the Tuesday night, when we drew with Everton. They drew 0-0 with West Ham on 14 May while we were beating Cov and lost 1-2 at Bristol City on 16 May, the Monday night. Then they had the FA Cup final on Saturday 21 May, which we'll gloss over, and the European Cup final on Wednesday 25 May, where they beat Moenchengladbach.

Bristol City then drew 2-2 at Coventry on the Thursday night (19 May), which kept both of those clubs up at the expense of Sunderland, who lost 2-0 at Everton on the same night. That was the game where Jimmy Hill, chairman of Cov at the time IIRC, had the kick off delayed so that his team would know what they needed to do as the game came towards the end. When both teams knew they'd stay up with a draw, they played out the last ten minutes or so with neither side making any effort to score. The Mackems are sore about that to this day.

I suppose it wouldn't have been a given that Liverpool would have won at Bristol City on the Monday had they needed the points. After all, Bristol City needed to win to have a chance of staying up, so it was quite a tough game.

That was the game where Jimmy Hill, chairman of Cov at the time IIRC, had the kick off delayed so that his team would know what they needed to do as the game came towards the end. When both teams knew they'd stay up with a draw, they played out the last ten minutes or so with neither side making any effort to score. The Mackems are sore about that to this day.
===============
I'd forgotten that shameful episode... On a par with West Germany v East Germany in world cup
 
levets said:
That was the game where Jimmy Hill, chairman of Cov at the time IIRC, had the kick off delayed so that his team would know what they needed to do as the game came towards the end. When both teams knew they'd stay up with a draw, they played out the last ten minutes or so with neither side making any effort to score. The Mackems are sore about that to this day.
===============
I'd forgotten that shameful episode... On a par with West Germany v East Germany in world cup

Yes, it was disgraceful. The story below is from the Sunderland Echo in October 2008 (link here - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/fans-revenge-on-fulham-legend-jimmy-hill-1-1054248" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/fans ... -1-1054248</a>) and shows how angry Sunderland fans were even more than 30 after the event - I would have been the same in their shoes:

Fans' revenge on Fulham legend Jimmy Hill

Published 20/10/2008 15:06

Sunderland supporters drew satisfaction on Saturday from extracting a modicum of revenge on the man who condemned the club to one of the darkest days in its history.

Jimmy Hill was at Craven Cottage on Saturday to pay tribute to former Fulham team-mate Johnny Haynes.

But he found that Sunderland fans also have long memories and have far from forgiven him for his part in the Wearsiders' 1977 relegation.

Best-known these days as a veteran TV pundit, Hill was chairman of Coventry City in 1976-77 when three teams went into the last day of the campaign facing relegation – Sunderland, Bristol City and Coventry.

Hill had the kick-off at the Coventry-Bristol City game delayed for 15 minutes because of "crowd congestion" and when news came through that Sunderland had lost to Everton, he had the result announced over the tannoy.

That sent the message to both teams that – provided neither scored – they would stay up at Sunderland's expense and what followed was a farcical passage of play in which neither side attempted to win.

Hill was reprimanded by the Football Association, but Sunderland's relegation still stood.

Today, in the glare of the Premier League, it would simply never have happened or, had it happened, Hill would have faced being drummed out of football and a legal inquest held.

Sunderland fans have never fully forgotten or forgiven that stain on the game – it goes miners' strike deep in some parts of Wearside – and looks as though it has been passed down from one generation to the next.

The old saying reckons revenge is a dish best served cold, but the reception Sunderland fans gave Jimmy Hill was anything but chilly.

Towards the end of the first half of Saturday's game against Fulham, thousands of Black Cats supporters spotted him standing yards away and reacted angrily with boos and abuse. When Hill waved and blew kisses, their anger escalated and he had to be led away by police for his own safety.

Sunderland fans made sure that Fulham supporters knew it was nothing personal against their club or their greatest player, Johnny Haynes – a statue of whom was unveiled on the day.

Every one of Haynes' old team-mates was cheered by the visiting support at half-time; but Hill they jeered to the rafters.

Haynes represented all that was good in football, but, in the minds of many Sunderland fans, Hill epitomises the opposite.

And at least the travelling supporters ensured that, more than three decades on, Hill hasn't entirely got away with it.
 
That last minute own goal v Liverpool at Xmas 76 was a real sickener.

City should have won the league that season, just as they should have done in 72.

City had a great team and many good players in the 70s and only winning the league cup in 76 was definitely an underperformance.
 

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