Manchester Evening News

Stuart Brennan and Mike Keegan have both in the past written many articles about our club some positive some negative but all based on facts. None of these articles have caused such amount of upset amongst our fan base or caused the amount of damage to the publication they work for as the one hastily thrown together in the cack handed way that the one by Lynch has.

If I were they I'd want to take Lynch in a back office and throttle him until he is Blue in the face but sadly in this day and age that is not allowed, Maybe instead they should sit him down and explain to him the error of his ways and when they have done that have a word with the person who sanctioned Lynch's piece of utter bile and explain to them the meaning of unbiased factual journalism.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I'm a great believer in holding up your hands when you've cocked up and saying sorry. To my mind, it makes you more credible than someone who tries to bluster their way through. I was at the game on Monday and on the lower tier and the only significant block of seats empty was in the upper tier of the away section.

The right thing to do would be for Rob Irvine to say "Sorry, it was a badly researched and ill-judged article. The game was sold-out and there is a witing list for new season tickets so it's clear there is a demand for more seats. We also recognise that not everyone can attend games for various reasons. We'd like to apologise for any ill-feeling this has caused and have withdrawn the offending article."

Then I'd have some respect for the MEN. But his idiotic attempt to defend a factually inaccurate piece is simply disgraceful.

Nail on the head
 
stuart brennan said:
Chris in London said:
The concern many blues have is that there IS an agenda, and the agenda is commercial self interest.

To be clear, the perception is that media outlets (in this case MEN but the same could be said of for instance Talksport or SSN) view 'bad news' stories about City as more likely to generate revenue for their organisation than fair minded or balanced pieces. So a particular editorial stance is taken that pieces like this should be written (acknowledging that this one seems to have backfired in spectacular fashion) knowing that it is unfair and will antagonise City fans, but not caring because that is the way revenue is generated. Lucky Toma posted something about the brief he had to write a piece for a blog which poked fun at United in much the same way and for much the same reason.

Many blues have gone through the process of being angry at the way our club has had acres of underserved shit in the media since the takeover in 2008 and have come to an acceptance that (e.g.) Talksport and SSN have an audience which consists mostly of non-City fans, and if that is how they want to make their money, that's up to them. What, judging from this thread and others like it, really offends people is that the MEN is the local paper, has a readership with a very high proportion of City fans, and in relation to its local team should take a more principled stance. It is crapping on its own readership, in a nutshell.

If you are happy to respond to this post by saying in clear terms that the editor of the MEN does not operate with a working assumption that 'bad news' stories about City generate more commercial benefit than fair and balanced pieces, and that editorial directives are not given to write 'bad news' stories about City for that reason, that I suspect would put a lot of peoples minds at rest. I appreciate that this puts you on the spot somewhat, but you have said that there is no agenda without defining what you mean by that.


While I appreciate your thoughtful approach, and those of wireblue and Tolmie, your argument is still flawed.
The fact is that good news and bad news story, for both United and City, make commercial sense - that is why we run good and bad news stories on both clubs. To suggest anything else doesn't make sense.
Being the local paper, the good news stories on both clubs out-weigh the bad.
In this case, it was simply a poorly-conceived article, and I will not try to defend it.
I can also state that NOBODY tells me, or asks me to come on here. This is not some kind of PR exercise, or anything like.
My policy about coming on here is that I feel it necessary to challenge posts which contain inaccuracies, or lies, about me or about the MEN. Otherwise, they tend to pass into the realm of fact.
Those pointing fingers at the sports editor should know he is on a tech training course this week, and has had nothing to do with any of this
And the poster who suggested David's piece was directed by some shadowy Trinity Mirror execs, hell-bent on bringing down the City empire, you need to stop reading Harry Potter books.
The truth is that two website journos suggested the article, David wrote it and it was read and OK'd by another website news journalist. Unless there are legal implications, or the subject matter really is important, articles do not need "signing off" by senior staff.
Before anyone gets upset, when I say important, I mean stuff that has a real impact on people's lives. This doesn't.
In the wake of it, we have tried to set up better lines of communication, so that such stuff is approved by more experienced people.
The problem, as wireblue says, is that these days, with small staffs and instant news, everyone is under pressure to work fast and get stuff online, and this article is an unhappy by-product of that.
Having said that, I'd better get my arse in gear and write some stuff!
here a bad news article about united.
Manchester United are adding as many as 24,000 fans on to crowd attendances compared with the actual number of people watching games at Old Trafford, according to police data.

Sir Alex Ferguson's team have not had a single crowd over 70,000 for a league match, police say, not taking in Monday's game against Manchester City. The club, in contrast, recorded attendances in excess of 75,000 every time. Instead Greater Manchester police's figures claim the average crowd for league matches, excluding City, is 10,000 below what the club say. The police records state it is 65,601 rather than the official figure of 75,527. In all competitions it is 61,739 rather than the club's 73,653.

United are still the best-supported club in England by some distance but the new set of figures claim Old Trafford was not even half-full for the Capital One Cup tie against Newcastle in September. The police recorded the number of people who passed through the turnstiles at 33,409. United gave the crowd as 46,358. In the next round, against West Ham, the disparity was even bigger. The police put down the crowd as 51,724, whereas United recorded it as 71,081.

When United played Cluj in the Champions League in December, having qualified for the knockout stages, the crowd was announced as 71,521. In fact, the police say it was 46,894.

The disparity is because United, in common with other clubs, release the number of people who bought tickets, whether or not they attend. The police keep their own record of actual match-goers for safety purposes and have released the data to the Redsaway fans' website under the Freedom of Information Act.

The figures show the high number of supporters who will buy tickets for matches without going. Arsenal are among the clubs who suffer the same problem on a large scale.

United's largest crowd of the season for a league match, according to the police, was 69,933 for Liverpool's visit in January (the club put it at 75,501). The lowest was against Southampton later that month. On that occasion the official attendance was given at 75,600 when, according to the police, the genuine figure was 59,766. In other words, almost 16,000 ticket-holders stayed away.

The Real Madrid match in the Champions League attracted the one 70,000-plus attendance at Old Trafford this season, in the data. The police recorded it at 72,299 whereas United declared it was 74,959, lower than any domestic league match because of Uefa's seating restrictions

will you run with it stuart,will you fuck,you and your paper are full of shit.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
stuart brennan said:
I understand some of the upset here, but the suggestions that this is one-sided and that we never do stuff like this about United should take note of these:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/revealed-manchester-uniteds-old-trafford-2592078" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... rd-2592078</a>

and

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-figures-reveal-five-times-3003108" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... es-3003108</a>

David Lynch's piece was ill-advised, flawed and badly-timed in my opinion, but it was not part of some wider agenda.

Fucking hell, Stuart, the way this kid defended himself on twitter was embarrassing, moving the goalposts every time he was given facts like some forum teenager backed into a corner. And the editing team's decision to run with your counter piece rather than pull it might have got a few hits, but theyve alienated a lot of people. These are not the usual "MUEN" bleaters, but opinion-shapers.

The Livepool papers would never have printed this piece about one of their own clubs in a million years. You know that's true. Appalling editorial incompetence. I feel for you because your job just got a lot harder.

This is a key point which I believe Stuart is acutely aware of but his colleagues are not.
 
I appreciate that nowadays the MEN has web space to cover as well as column inches and there are extra demands placed on journalistic output. But for anyone within the power structure of the paper, whether that is the web editor, the sports editor or indeed the editor in chief to sign off nonsense like Lynch's article is brainless in the extreme.

It's good of people like Stuart to come on our forum in his free time and try and offer some rebuttal of city supporters accusations of bias and a negative agenda, but you can clearly understand why viewpoints are cultivated in this manner when 'opinion' pieces which have no basis in fact make it to the public domain.

There are hundreds of posters on this forum who write excellent articulated opinion pieces about everything Manchester City, they do it out of their love of the club and their wish to start reasoned debates with other like minded supporters. Why doesn't the MEN recruit a couple of these people to cover our club? They would probably do it for free and it would restore some faith in the paper.

We don't care for people who have no vested interest in our club to be writing their opinions in the MANCHESTER evening news, they belong on Sky or TalkSport. Why not ship them out and get people who actually care in?
 
sir peace frog said:
here a bad news article about united.
will you run with it stuart,will you fuck,you and your paper are full of shit.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/revealed-manchester-uniteds-old-trafford-2592078" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... rd-2592078</a>

Pretty sure they broke it
 
gh_mcfc said:
stuart brennan said:
gh_mcfc said:
So you can see that writing untruths pass into the realm of fact. We have put up with this since 2008 at least. Whilst your input is appreciated I hope the Irony of this isn`t lost on you.

Absolutely I can see the irony. That is why I responded to the article with one of my own, and why I have, in the past, written stuff defending City on FFP and other issues., and will continue to do so, when I feel they are being unfairly treated.

Fair point but it goes back to what we all are saying. I assume the article is still there and an editorial decision the keep it there has been made. (wont be clicking to find out). The lie is still there to be allowed to pass into fact and picked up by any individual or organisation. Even if someone also happens to read your piece it doesn`t mean the lie isn`t perpetuated.
While this is nowhere near in the same class, The Sun's coverage of Hillsborough is the ultimate example of the lie becoming the fact.

Also, Danny Taylor was on the other day defending his article about City fans singing Munich songs before a cup game at West Ham 6 years ago, based on second hand testimony. People forget all the good stuff but still remember these things.
 
stuart brennan said:
Chris in London said:
The concern many blues have is that there IS an agenda, and the agenda is commercial self interest.

To be clear, the perception is that media outlets (in this case MEN but the same could be said of for instance Talksport or SSN) view 'bad news' stories about City as more likely to generate revenue for their organisation than fair minded or balanced pieces. So a particular editorial stance is taken that pieces like this should be written (acknowledging that this one seems to have backfired in spectacular fashion) knowing that it is unfair and will antagonise City fans, but not caring because that is the way revenue is generated. Lucky Toma posted something about the brief he had to write a piece for a blog which poked fun at United in much the same way and for much the same reason.

Many blues have gone through the process of being angry at the way our club has had acres of underserved shit in the media since the takeover in 2008 and have come to an acceptance that (e.g.) Talksport and SSN have an audience which consists mostly of non-City fans, and if that is how they want to make their money, that's up to them. What, judging from this thread and others like it, really offends people is that the MEN is the local paper, has a readership with a very high proportion of City fans, and in relation to its local team should take a more principled stance. It is crapping on its own readership, in a nutshell.

If you are happy to respond to this post by saying in clear terms that the editor of the MEN does not operate with a working assumption that 'bad news' stories about City generate more commercial benefit than fair and balanced pieces, and that editorial directives are not given to write 'bad news' stories about City for that reason, that I suspect would put a lot of peoples minds at rest. I appreciate that this puts you on the spot somewhat, but you have said that there is no agenda without defining what you mean by that.


While I appreciate your thoughtful approach, and those of wireblue and Tolmie, your argument is still flawed.
The fact is that good news and bad news story, for both United and City, make commercial sense - that is why we run good and bad news stories on both clubs. To suggest anything else doesn't make sense.
Being the local paper, the good news stories on both clubs out-weigh the bad.
In this case, it was simply a poorly-conceived article, and I will not try to defend it.
I can also state that NOBODY tells me, or asks me to come on here. This is not some kind of PR exercise, or anything like.
My policy about coming on here is that I feel it necessary to challenge posts which contain inaccuracies, or lies, about me or about the MEN. Otherwise, they tend to pass into the realm of fact.
Those pointing fingers at the sports editor should know he is on a tech training course this week, and has had nothing to do with any of this
And the poster who suggested David's piece was directed by some shadowy Trinity Mirror execs, hell-bent on bringing down the City empire, you need to stop reading Harry Potter books.
The truth is that two website journos suggested the article, David wrote it and it was read and OK'd by another website news journalist. Unless there are legal implications, or the subject matter really is important, articles do not need "signing off" by senior staff.
Before anyone gets upset, when I say important, I mean stuff that has a real impact on people's lives. This doesn't.
In the wake of it, we have tried to set up better lines of communication, so that such stuff is approved by more experienced people.
The problem, as wireblue says, is that these days, with small staffs and instant news, everyone is under pressure to work fast and get stuff online, and this article is an unhappy by-product of that.
Having said that, I'd better get my arse in gear and write some stuff!
Your paper printed a story full of lies and vituperative. It stands by that story. There's nothing else to say.*

*Bert Trautmann's Parachute is currently on a training course. This post was submitted by the milkman, who has lots of experience using the internet.
 
Damocles said:
sir peace frog said:
here a bad news article about united.
will you run with it stuart,will you fuck,you and your paper are full of shit.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/revealed-manchester-uniteds-old-trafford-2592078" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... rd-2592078</a>

Pretty sure they broke it

Someone's chips are tasting a tad pissy at the moment.......
 

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