Mancini you are gutless

[GStar]

Our setup was exactly the same GStar. The only difference was that Uniteds midfield doesn't have the legs of Chelsea's, so there were very few gaps to exploit as by and large Scholes and Carrick just sit and form an effective shield. Chelsea only had Mikel doing that. Plus, United had Park tuck in to effectively make it 4 vs 3 in their favour. That's why we couldn't dominate the midfield the way we did vs Chelsea.

If you note the first 25-30 minutes Park stayed in his usual widish position, and we had all of the ball. I thought we were going to crush them. To be fair to Fergie he solved that problem, and thus requiring us to change our system to counter it, which Mancini wasn't prepared to do. whereas Ancelotti was 1-0 down at that point so gambled by throwing on more forward players, which plays into our hands as it leaves Carlos and Silva less isolated.

In short we set out exactly the same way, but the circumstances of the goal dictated how the rest of the game played out.

Mancini for me plays by percentages. He knows that that team can see out a game regardless of the opposition.

After 45 minutes he was probably 80% sure of getting a point if we were happy with that. If we went all out, chances of winning jump to 50-60% but chances of a loss increase from 20% to 40-50%. Given the stakes and how far behind we would be if we lost, I understand the reasoning.

Great post, agree with it all.

I can't agree with the last bit, which essentially says; "Mancini watches the first half, has a guess at what chance we have of winning loosing and then sets out our second half from there."

There is no way any manager worth any amount would attempt such a rough clusterfuck.

How are these percentages gotten to? Think of a few of the main variables:

-Our team's performance
-Our team's condidtion
-Individual form
-Team form
-Home or Away
-Our bench
-The officials
-The opposition performance
-The opposition condition
-The opposition bench
-Who we're playing next game
-Who they're playing next game
-Our plan B,C,D
-Their plan B,C,D

There's loads more, and there's just no way after 45 minutes you can determine the course of a game. We obviously can't see out a game regardless of opposition as we've just lost 3 times in a week.

I'm not against Mancini, as i've said before, i'm actually becoming more Pro Mancini (bar last night) as the "Out" camp grows.

I just wish we had a slightly more rigid shape, that we had a bit of a clue of how we we're going to play before we go out on the pitch and that we had a pitch more purpose and speed to our build up.

We really lack pace in our team imo. No SWP, No Bellamy, Ireland wasn't slow and Ade can get a move on when he need's to... as could Robinho with the ball at his feet.

Milner, Barry, Johnson, Yaya (90% of the time), Silva whilst all being talented... none have that extra yard of pace to get in behind the defence.

Bar Johnson, we also lack players who will regularly take on and beat their man too.

 

[DD]

Some fans make me despair. I fucking hated losing 4-3 at the swamp last year depite it being "entertaining" and comments like yours above really do make me question what some City fans want.

I understand your point but you are going from one extreme to the other. We don't need the extremes; most entertaining game for years and lose or most boring game for years and don't. There is middle ground you know!

What I would occasionally like is my money's worth. If I didn't have a season ticket I'd be paying £40 a game to be bored to tears. It might be a results business but if you want the long term sustainable support, you have to make people want to come back for more. You've got to give them enjoyable football. It doesn't have to be Barcelona, but at the same time I don't want it to be Barnet.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I'm not against Mancini, as i've said before, i'm actually becoming more Pro Mancini (bar last night) as the "Out" camp grows.

I just wish we had a slightly more rigid shape, that we had a bit of a clue of how we we're going to play before we go out on the pitch and that we had a pitch more purpose and speed to our build up.

We really lack pace in our team imo. No SWP, No Bellamy, Ireland wasn't slow and Ade can get a move on when he need's to... as could Robinho with the ball at his feet.

Milner, Barry, Johnson, Yaya (90% of the time), Silva whilst all being talented... none have that extra yard of pace to get in behind the defence.

Bar Johnson, we also lack players who will regularly take on and beat their man too.

It would be a bit more honest if you based your opinion on the manager on what you see before your eyes, not what other people think.

Why can't people understand that if you criticise the manager it doesn't mean you want him "out"? It means you don't agree with what he does.

Your points at the end of your post I agree with in the main. We are short of pace. And I agree Johnson is our only real outlet for getting past people.

So why did the manager not start with him? Why did he not put him on at half time? Why did he not put him on when Evra was injured? Why does he keep setting us up with these slow players? Why is he playing Yaya too far up the park? Why is he playing a narrow formation with a left back who can't get forward and can't kick it with his left foot?

Sometimes Mancini gets it right, like last weekend, but he gets it wrong an awful lot - like last night.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Some fans make me despair. I fucking hated losing 4-3 at the swamp last year depite it being "entertaining" and comments like yours above really do make me question what some City fans want.

I understand your point but you are going from one extreme to the other. We don't need the extremes; most entertaining game for years and lose or most boring game for years and don't. There is middle ground you know!

What I would occasionally like is my money's worth. If I didn't have a season ticket I'd be paying £40 a game to be bored to tears. It might be a results business but if you want the long term sustainable support, you have to make people want to come back for more. You've got to give them enjoyable football. It doesn't have to be Barcelona, but at the same time I don't want it to be Barnet.

Get in the champions league and half of china will be buying city tops. For the past two years I've been teaching young pilots in China and they all know and like city thanks to Sun Jihai but they support Baca, Inter and the rags because of the chumps league which is as big here as it is in Europe. Once we're in there our revenue stream from merchandise goes through the fucking roof.

 

[SWP's back]

I'm not against Mancini, as i've said before, i'm actually becoming more Pro Mancini (bar last night) as the "Out" camp grows.

I just wish we had a slightly more rigid shape, that we had a bit of a clue of how we we're going to play before we go out on the pitch and that we had a pitch more purpose and speed to our build up.

We really lack pace in our team imo. No SWP, No Bellamy, Ireland wasn't slow and Ade can get a move on when he need's to... as could Robinho with the ball at his feet.

Milner, Barry, Johnson, Yaya (90% of the time), Silva whilst all being talented... none have that extra yard of pace to get in behind the defence.

Bar Johnson, we also lack players who will regularly take on and beat their man too.

It would be a bit more honest if you based your opinion on the manager on what you see before your eyes, not what other people think.

Why can't people understand that if you criticise the manager it doesn't mean you want him "out"? It means you don't agree with what he does.

Your points at the end of your post I agree with in the main. We are short of pace. And I agree Johnson is our only real outlet for getting past people.

So why did the manager not start with him? Why did he not put him on at half time? Why did he not put him on when Evra was injured? Why does he keep setting us up with these slow players? Why is he playing Yaya too far up the park? Why is he playing a narrow formation with a left back who can't get forward and can't kick it with his left foot?

Sometimes Mancini gets it right, like last weekend, but he gets it wrong an awful lot - like last night.

Agree with you on the LB and I think Kolarov will start all games now he is fit. BM obviously decided not to throw him into a 90 min derby so soon after injury.

 

[Balti]

It was frustrating to watch for sure. But they were just as guilty as we were hoping that we would go for it and leave the gaps for them to break our hearts with the sucker punch yet again.

Yes we've sometimes beaten them comprehensively in the past when we've had a go but then that has been the highlight of our season with little else to boast about for way too long.

So if thats what it takes to finish in the Top 4 and progress as a club then I guess I'll take that over the other option.

 

[simon23]

I said in the match thread when the teams were announced that it was an over cautious team from RM and it proved to be. Silva and tev ended up isolated...milner offers nothing going forward and wehn he does get a cross in there is noone on the end of it.

RM istn being honest when he says he set up the team to win...that was blatant for anyone to see....he set it up not to lose....Now in the past against utd I would have agreed as they have been stronger than us for numerous years...however in the alst few derbys (including the CC's) they have been there for the taking and RM hasnt gone for it with his team selection

ADE SHOULD HAVE PLAYED - he hasnt been in the best of form granted. However his presence would have created more room for tev and and silva

It should have been a straight swap, ade for balo.....simple as that....ade can run the channels just like balo does, he is also a big presence upfront, a threat from corners (YAYA despite his size is useless in the air!!). Tev could have dropped into the hole like he did against west brom with a license to roam.....however he was so isolated and easy to mark

Utd were there for the taking last night....ok first half we had loads of possession but did absolutely nothing with it...second half we looked like we were dropping deeper and deeper. Utd do this all the time in europe...they soak up pressure first half and then go for it in the second....yet RM let them do this and invited them on with his set up of his team....we were very lucky not to lose last night...berbatov should have done better with his chance

at no point besides the tev free kick and the half chance that zab got via a lucky deflection did we threaten their goal. Ok they didnt really do much either but thats not the point....we whould be taking the initiative and STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE OTHER TEAM!!!!!!

 

[PragueBlue]

Why did he not put him on when Evra was injured? .

He pretty much did. Evra went off in the 68th minute and Johnson came on in the 72nd.

 

[K.Reeves right foot]

I said in the match thread when the teams were announced that it was an over cautious team from RM and it proved to be. Silva and tev ended up isolated...milner offers nothing going forward and wehn he does get a cross in there is noone on the end of it.

RM istn being honest when he says he set up the team to win...that was blatant for anyone to see....he set it up not to lose....Now in the past against utd I would have agreed as they have been stronger than us for numerous years...however in the alst few derbys (including the CC's) they have been there for the taking and RM hasnt gone for it with his team selection

ADE SHOULD HAVE PLAYED - he hasnt been in the best of form granted. However his presence would have created more room for tev and and silva

It should have been a straight swap, ade for balo.....simple as that....ade can run the channels just like balo does, he is also a big presence upfront, a threat from corners (YAYA despite his size is useless in the air!!). Tev could have dropped into the hole like he did against west brom with a license to roam.....however he was so isolated and easy to mark

Utd were there for the taking last night....ok first half we had loads of possession but did absolutely nothing with it...second half we looked like we were dropping deeper and deeper. Utd do this all the time in europe...they soak up pressure first half and then go for it in the second....yet RM let them do this and invited them on with his set up of his team....we were very lucky not to lose last night...berbatov should have done better with his chance

at no point besides the tev free kick and the half chance that zab got via a lucky deflection did we threaten their goal. Ok they didnt really do much either but thats not the point....we whould be taking the initiative and STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE OTHER TEAM!!!!!!

Spot on Simon. My thoughts.

 

[GStar]

It would be a bit more honest if you based your opinion on the manager on what you see before your eyes, not what other people think.

Why can't people understand that if you criticise the manager it doesn't mean you want him "out"? It means you don't agree with what he does.

Your points at the end of your post I agree with in the main. We are short of pace. And I agree Johnson is our only real outlet for getting past people.

So why did the manager not start with him? Why did he not put him on at half time? Why did he not put him on when Evra was injured? Why does he keep setting us up with these slow players? Why is he playing Yaya too far up the park? Why is he playing a narrow formation with a left back who can't get forward and can't kick it with his left foot?

Sometimes Mancini gets it right, like last weekend, but he gets it wrong an awful lot - like last night.

I didn't describe myself well so i can understand why you jumped to that conclusion. Its not that i want to "go against the grain" or anything, but i just seem to see the reasons for keeping him much clearer than i do for getting rid. It just so happens that coincides with the rising popularity of sacking him off.

I also never said that criticism = Mancini out. If you go through my posts on Mancini you'll see i do criticise him - quite often.

I understand why Johnson never started... because we set up not to conceed, as opposed to go out there and thrash them. I'd have preffered the latter, i think we'd have taken all three points had we done so.