Mancini you are gutless

It was a boring game where the teams cancelled each other out but on reflection at least we're as close to United as we were before the game. If we'd have beaten them we would have been on the same points but if we'd lost they'd be 6 points clear of us. At least Mancini's tactics mean we're still close to them.
 
ThreeTeamSupporter said:
joel the blue said:
Much has been said about last nights performance. For my money we were rubbish, and the only person to blame is Mancini, is tactics are awful, i just wish someone wuld inform him that in England we dont play like they do in Italy.
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What a cracking first post....
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Well said - at last, someone with a bit of reality. He doesn't know what he's doing.............and,if he does - he's wrong!
 
The OP is to caught up with his friendship of a certain player to have a clear head when it comes to our manager and he isn't the only poster on here suffering the same....

Mancini is focussed and results driven....not Gutless!
 
now that the dust has settled (well, kind of) can I ask everyone what they thought of mancini's excuse for not going for more of an attacking way of playing? "mario is suspended" he has played about 200 mins of football, we managed to beat chelsea and liverpool without him, now we cannot play attacking football whenever mario is not playing?

I'm not looking for another slanging match, when you sift through all of the attacks and guff, its a good read on both sides of the coin.<br /><br />-- Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:16 pm --<br /><br />
Ducado said:
Why does the OP only come on here to slag Mancini off?

I would have thought he would be in love with the guy after he gave his best mate a chance in the first team
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please go through my posts and see how many are slagging him off? I dont like him, but my love for the club is alot stronger than that dislike. why do you just come on here to slag fellow blues off?
 
forevercity said:
now that the dust has settled (well, kind of) can I ask everyone what they thought of mancini's excuse for not going for more of an attacking way of playing? "mario is suspended" he has played about 200 mins of football, we managed to beat chelsea and liverpool without him, now we cannot play attacking football whenever mario is not playing?
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Mancini isn't saying that with Balotelli the whole ethos of the team changes. But that we pose a bigger threat in the final third. With Balotelli you have a much better chance of winning tight games like this. They have another player to worry about meaning Silva and Tevez are less isolated. Milner is fairly predictable and United just didn't need to worry about him, concentrating on our only two match winners.
 
Project said:
forevercity said:
now that the dust has settled (well, kind of) can I ask everyone what they thought of mancini's excuse for not going for more of an attacking way of playing? "mario is suspended" he has played about 200 mins of football, we managed to beat chelsea and liverpool without him, now we cannot play attacking football whenever mario is not playing?
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Mancini isn't saying that with Balotelli the whole ethos of the team changes. But that we pose a bigger threat in the final third. With Balotelli you have a much better chance of winning tight games like this. They have another player to worry about meaning Silva and Tevez are less isolated. Milner is fairly predictable and United just didn't need to worry about him, concentrating on our only two match winners.
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good point mate, but it just sounded like a lame excuse to me at the time.

on reflection a point isnt a disaster, it was just the manner of which we didnt make a fist of it. 3 points on saturday will make us all feel better hopefully!
 
"could go on, but no one on here will have it. they think mancini is some sort of tactical genius. he isnt. he was scared of utd last night and doesnt know how much these derby's mean to us. they were by far the better side last night and they could easily have won 2-0. his football is dross. his subs make no sense."


You just don't get it do you? The side the tactics he put out were the same that no doubt had you jumping out of your seat against Liverpool and Chelsea.
The derby doesn't mean anymore to Mancini than the games vs Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool. It's just another big game. Only 3 points are on offer, the top managers take each game as it comes, perhaps it's time to learn from United. Fergie has said the derby is not United's biggest game, likewise I'm sure Benitez, Wenger and Anchelotti don't consider their Derbies to be the biggest game. Are we aiming to be Everton, Fulham or Spurs or Arsenal, United or Chelsea? The Derby should no longer be our priority but winning things should, I have never been a blue who loves winning the Derby yet going on to watch United lift trophies. I'd prefer an indifferent Derby record with a good record of winning trophies. Obviously a good derby win is enjoyable but I'm only 30 so I assume the joy of winning a trophy is much more rewarding.
Mancini has only one played his 1st choice attacking 3 and we looked very very good.
Why can we not give a proven winner a year or two to see if he can turn proven losers into winner.
I agree if after 3 years we're still in 4th, and stumbling along start to consider Mancini's tenure, but please give him chance.
 
Forevercity (matt), please read the post I submitted, prior to your placing this one (if you haven't already), and maybe you'll see when considering some of the points I raise, I suggest too many blues seem too attached and emotional to judge Mancini as fairly as I believe he deserves?

<a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=196826" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=196826</a>
 
It's all about opinions but there are some points that get mentioned over and over so her's my take:

1. United were there for the taking: No team has beaten them this season so I'd say that's clearly incorrect. The notion that the reason for this is in some way psychological is ridiculous. Just because we want them to be worse doesn't mean it's true.

2. Why didn't we play Johnson?: In a game like the derby when BOTH teams got everyone behind the ball and there was no space Johnson would have been a luxury. I agree that in a game where the opponents play a high line or are going forward together Johnson's pace is invaluable. I don't understand why he wasn't used earlier vs Newcastle for example.

3. Man for man we have better players than United: It's actually quite close but that doesn't matter. They have the better team and will have for at least this season. This is no reflection on us. United would only be bettered by Chelsea Barca and Real Madrid still. If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself, I don't care what United fans say about their own team...they want to fire Fergie everytime they lose (which is hardly ever)

4. Some winning mentality?: This is vital but it doesn't mean you have to win every game. It's the war that's important not the battle.

5. We should go forward more this is boring: Very subjective. Personally I found the derby an interesting tactical battle all over the field but yes it's clearly not to everyone's taste and can't be described as entertaining at the moment. Rightly or wrongly I think Mancini thinks we have two great strikers..Tevez and Balotelli and until he can pair them we will rely more on the rest of the team to get us results. We have a lot of attacking options on paper but Mancini has decided that RSC Jo Caicedo Etuhu (for football reasons) and probably Bellamy and Ade (for mentality reasons) are not good enough. Time will tell.

6. Let's change the manager: OK not all the detractors are saying this but some would like him gone. Have we learned nothing? 3 years minimum. But Hughes didn't get 3 years? True but he wasn't our owners choice while Mancini is. I think Mancini is doing fine overall and there is only one person in World football it would be worth starting again for and he isn't going to leave Real Madrid for a while. When he does I hope Fergie is still at United because I think we might get him.

7. Lastly ask youself this: If either Tevez's free kick or Zab's shot (the two best chances of the game by the way) had gone in giving us a victory with exactly the same set up, how many would be complaining about the lack of entertainment?
 
Cobwebcat said:
It's all about opinions but there are some points that get mentioned over and over so her's my take:

1. United were there for the taking: No team has beaten them this season so I'd say that's clearly incorrect. The notion that the reason for this is in some way psychological is ridiculous. Just because we want them to be worse doesn't mean it's true.

2. Why didn't we play Johnson?: In a game like the derby when BOTH teams got everyone behind the ball and there was no space Johnson would have been a luxury. I agree that in a game where the opponents play a high line or are going forward together Johnson's pace is invaluable. I don't understand why he wasn't used earlier vs Newcastle for example.

3. Man for man we have better players than United: It's actually quite close but that doesn't matter. They have the better team and will have for at least this season. This is no reflection on us. United would only be bettered by Chelsea Barca and Real Madrid still. If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself, I don't care what United fans say about their own team...they want to fire Fergie everytime they lose (which is hardly ever)

4. Some winning mentality?: This is vital but it doesn't mean you have to win every game. It's the war that's important not the battle.

5. We should go forward more this is boring: Very subjective. Personally I found the derby an interesting tactical battle all over the field but yes it's clearly not to everyone's taste and can't be described as entertaining at the moment. Rightly or wrongly I think Mancini thinks we have two great strikers..Tevez and Balotelli and until he can pair them we will rely more on the rest of the team to get us results. We have a lot of attacking options on paper but Mancini has decided that RSC Jo Caicedo Etuhu (for football reasons) and probably Bellamy and Ade (for mentality reasons) are not good enough. Time will tell.

6. Let's change the manager: OK not all the detractors are saying this but some would like him gone. Have we learned nothing? 3 years minimum. But Hughes didn't get 3 years? True but he wasn't our owners choice while Mancini is. I think Mancini is doing fine overall and there is only one person in World football it would be worth starting again for and he isn't going to leave Real Madrid for a while. When he does I hope Fergie is still at United because I think we might get him.

7. Lastly ask youself this: If either Tevez's free kick or Zab's shot (the two best chances of the game by the way) had gone in giving us a victory with exactly the same set up, how many would be complaining about the lack of entertainment?
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This is a well thought out post. Regarding your last point, I would still argue that many fans would still prefer to see us create more than two half chances, or at least appear that we are 'trying' to create clear cut chances. We are slightly ambiguous, because we can't really say, we weren't trying to create one chance at all, but then we can't really say we were either. But I accept the point, that there is a fine line with these things. Equally, you could pose the question, what if it hadn't worked, and Utd had won 1-0 (I know they didn't but for argument sake), then the reaction would have extended to those who like yourself enjoyed the chess style battle, because then the criticism sharpens - more focus on the 'style', because it's fine when you get a result in those games, but if you don't, and caution comes back to bite the ass, it's not only a cagey, chess style battle, but a gutless defeat

I disagree with your point about Johnson, whilst acknowledging your issue with playing him against more of a high line. I think Johnson has the ability to maneuver in tight situations and he would have provided us with a real contrast to the defensive shape rigid set up. However, he HAS to start on saturday for sure.
 
gio's side step said:
Cobwebcat said:
It's all about opinions but there are some points that get mentioned over and over so her's my take:

1. United were there for the taking: No team has beaten them this season so I'd say that's clearly incorrect. The notion that the reason for this is in some way psychological is ridiculous. Just because we want them to be worse doesn't mean it's true.

2. Why didn't we play Johnson?: In a game like the derby when BOTH teams got everyone behind the ball and there was no space Johnson would have been a luxury. I agree that in a game where the opponents play a high line or are going forward together Johnson's pace is invaluable. I don't understand why he wasn't used earlier vs Newcastle for example.

3. Man for man we have better players than United: It's actually quite close but that doesn't matter. They have the better team and will have for at least this season. This is no reflection on us. United would only be bettered by Chelsea Barca and Real Madrid still. If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself, I don't care what United fans say about their own team...they want to fire Fergie everytime they lose (which is hardly ever)

4. Some winning mentality?: This is vital but it doesn't mean you have to win every game. It's the war that's important not the battle.

5. We should go forward more this is boring: Very subjective. Personally I found the derby an interesting tactical battle all over the field but yes it's clearly not to everyone's taste and can't be described as entertaining at the moment. Rightly or wrongly I think Mancini thinks we have two great strikers..Tevez and Balotelli and until he can pair them we will rely more on the rest of the team to get us results. We have a lot of attacking options on paper but Mancini has decided that RSC Jo Caicedo Etuhu (for football reasons) and probably Bellamy and Ade (for mentality reasons) are not good enough. Time will tell.

6. Let's change the manager: OK not all the detractors are saying this but some would like him gone. Have we learned nothing? 3 years minimum. But Hughes didn't get 3 years? True but he wasn't our owners choice while Mancini is. I think Mancini is doing fine overall and there is only one person in World football it would be worth starting again for and he isn't going to leave Real Madrid for a while. When he does I hope Fergie is still at United because I think we might get him.

7. Lastly ask youself this: If either Tevez's free kick or Zab's shot (the two best chances of the game by the way) had gone in giving us a victory with exactly the same set up, how many would be complaining about the lack of entertainment?
Click to expand...

This is a well thought out post. Regarding your last point, I would still argue that many fans would still prefer to see us create more than two half chances, or at least appear that we are 'trying' to create clear cut chances. We are slightly ambiguous, because we can't really say, we weren't trying to create one chance at all, but then we can't really say we were either. But I accept the point, that there is a fine line with these things. Equally, you could pose the question, what if it hadn't worked, and Utd had won 1-0 (I know they didn't but for argument sake), then the reaction would have extended to those who like yourself enjoyed the chess style battle, because then the criticism sharpens - more focus on the 'style', because it's fine when you get a result in those games, but if you don't, and caution comes back to bite the ass, it's not only a cagey, chess style battle, but a gutless defeat

I disagree with your point about Johnson, whilst acknowledging your issue with playing him against more of a high line. I think Johnson has the ability to maneuver in tight situations and he would have provided us with a real contrast to the defensive shape rigid set up. However, he HAS to start on saturday for sure.
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Yes I accept your point too. I'd like to think, if we had conceded and lost, that I would have thought the same but of course I can't be sure.

I love Johnson but even when he came on he hardly saw any of the ball against United and he doesn't get back as well as Milner so it's hard to keep the overall shape. The nature of the player and what he is trying to do (take people on) means that he is more likely to give the ball away which I think is Mancini's big no-no and why SWP is out of favour.

Agree that Johnson must start v Brum.
 
Cobwebcat said:
It's all about opinions but there are some points that get mentioned over and over so her's my take:

1. United were there for the taking: No team has beaten them this season so I'd say that's clearly incorrect. The notion that the reason for this is in some way psychological is ridiculous. Just because we want them to be worse doesn't mean it's true.

2. Why didn't we play Johnson?: In a game like the derby when BOTH teams got everyone behind the ball and there was no space Johnson would have been a luxury. I agree that in a game where the opponents play a high line or are going forward together Johnson's pace is invaluable. I don't understand why he wasn't used earlier vs Newcastle for example.

3. Man for man we have better players than United: It's actually quite close but that doesn't matter. They have the better team and will have for at least this season. This is no reflection on us. United would only be bettered by Chelsea Barca and Real Madrid still. If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself, I don't care what United fans say about their own team...they want to fire Fergie everytime they lose (which is hardly ever)

4. Some winning mentality?: This is vital but it doesn't mean you have to win every game. It's the war that's important not the battle.

5. We should go forward more this is boring: Very subjective. Personally I found the derby an interesting tactical battle all over the field but yes it's clearly not to everyone's taste and can't be described as entertaining at the moment. Rightly or wrongly I think Mancini thinks we have two great strikers..Tevez and Balotelli and until he can pair them we will rely more on the rest of the team to get us results. We have a lot of attacking options on paper but Mancini has decided that RSC Jo Caicedo Etuhu (for football reasons) and probably Bellamy and Ade (for mentality reasons) are not good enough. Time will tell.

6. Let's change the manager: OK not all the detractors are saying this but some would like him gone. Have we learned nothing? 3 years minimum. But Hughes didn't get 3 years? True but he wasn't our owners choice while Mancini is. I think Mancini is doing fine overall and there is only one person in World football it would be worth starting again for and he isn't going to leave Real Madrid for a while. When he does I hope Fergie is still at United because I think we might get him.

7. Lastly ask youself this: If either Tevez's free kick or Zab's shot (the two best chances of the game by the way) had gone in giving us a victory with exactly the same set up, how many would be complaining about the lack of entertainment?
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Good post.Totally agree about Johnson.Tevez apart, he's our best player.

Here's my take on our situation:

1. We had a team out on Wednesday that was our best team (I'm basing this on the very clear assumption that Mancini wouldn't have played Ballotelli against United becuase he didn't want to lose/was far too cautious etc).That team has a few average players in it in my opinion.Gareth Barry, Kompany, Zabaleta, Kolo Toure, Adebayor, Lescott and Vieira all aren't what we need to dominate at home or abroad.Yaya doesn't look like he's interested either and it's that attitude, coupled with paying mega-bucks for average players that is our immediate downfall.We need at least 6 better players to mount a serious title challenge.The main problem with that though is two fold: attracting players that want to be here not just for the cash and the outlay on said players exceeding the fairplay rule.We need class defenders and some real creativity in the centre of the park asap.

2. Agree about United being a better team but I cant say I agree about us being 'man for man' better than them.They had a patched up team on Wednesday, their two full backs went off injured, their star man wasn't playing, 3 of their players that played allegedley had flu and they STILL were man for man better than us.Johnson would get in their side, Tevez too, but who else would?

3. Mancini, even in his short time here, has showed that he's not made for English football.Just read today that he's said he'd be happy with 4th! Hows that for negative? His approach against an off-colour and depleted United side was just shocking and embarrassing.If Berbatov would have buried that chance, they'd have strolled it.We need Mourinho at any cost and with him come the real world class talents that we are desperate for - Ronaldo, Rooney, Xavi, et al are the players that will make a difference, not Gareth Barry and Adebayor (I know they aren't Mancini's signings, obviously).BUT, because we've spent massively already, we're now struggling because of the FIFA guidelines.It's a real problem now because we just dont generate enough cash.

This might sound harsh but Chelsea and United are both ahead of our club at the moment and their players all seem to 'get it' with regards to what it means to play for them.Our team look like strangers who aren't arsed a lot of the time.We dont have that mentallity yet, but it cant come soon enough.Is Mancini the guy to instill this and turn us into the Chelsea or United model? No, he isn't.
 
DoubleDenimDave said:
We need at least 6 better players to mount a serious title challenge.
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We've brought in some world class talent yet you still think we need another 6 to mount a title challenge? U****d, on paper, had a far worse Team out on Wednesday than we did yet they've got to be 2nd favorites for the Premiership this season. They know eachother and what they're able to do - and their unbeaten run remains in tact.

I'm really not enjoying the defensive side of Mancini's City but he's got until the end of the season to deliver something. A Pot, 4th... Something. Otherwise he can get his coat.
 
Taking Tevez off for Barry is fucking gutless. This display is gutless. Mancini is gutless. Oh well at least we haven't lost Mancini
 
forevercity said:
Taking Tevez off for Barry is fucking gutless. This display is gutless. Mancini is gutless. Oh well at least we haven't lost Mancini
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thought you always went to every game...???
 
Ive given up hope on the mancini, i think he has lost part of the dressing room. could have been that way for a while as we never seem to play good football in the first half, and eventually we turn it up. but thats not just the players.

I just dont think he knows what he is doing. yes he won things in a slow league like italy, but when you are in the 10x faster prem league you have to change things. and the subs he makes are apalling. Tevez is not a striker you want to play up top on your own against an average of 6'3 defenders. the sit and counter tactic will work some games but as you see it wont work all the time. we havent looked good in any match to me this prem season apart from chelsea.

i waitied and gave him a chance but i cant take this football anymore, and the players you pick and the formations you play. Mancini Out
 
I am sure mancini will come after this game and say:"this is futbal" and i would agree with that.

we controlled the game and we were the better team, but we dont have strong forwards (except for balotelli) who are able to make a difference. rocque's presence did not change much, plus tevez was replaced because he was tired... that was clear from the number of balls he missed. ppl wanted AJ to start, he did not do much either though he played the whole game.

instead of complaining, I would like to know from some of you what mancini should have done to change the result.
 
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