Mancini you are gutless

[ST Coleridge]

'Gutless'?

Oh, behave. Toure was playing too far forward, if anything, finding himself ahead of Tevez again and again. This was in no way 'Three DMs'. The full-backs should've joined attacks more, this was where the real caution occurred - but Kolarov isn't match-fit, and I'm sure many of you were happy with Boateng and Zabaleta when you saw the teamsheet.

It wasn't a question of gutlessness, but of personnel - for all the covering and pressing that Toure did, you might as well have had Silva in there and Johnson on the wing, or Milner in the hole and DS & AJ wide.

I hope that Yaya isn't being picked on reputation & wages alone - though I really can't see Mancini deliberately sabotaging himself in such a manner.

On Yoonited - They're a shit team on paper but, as Dave says, they're more than the sum of their parts. And, once again, they're sitting second and unbeaten. They shouldn't be underestimated just yet.

 

[flb]

Dave-your belittling a club that have dominated English football for near on 20 years,unfortunately they are BIG RED im afraid.

You say they arnt that good but lie second in the table?Dave they are good-in fact better than us still at this present time.Yes we do have a squad better than theres but the facts are they are extremely well drilled,still pass the ball very well,have a system the whole club at all levels use-all of which come from having a manager in place for more than five minuites (Arsenal also).

Dave you make it sound like we should be 6 points clear at the top of the table!

They have the same squad and team that lost a fourth successive title last year by one point.

We would have taken a draw against WBA and a win against the rags wouldnt we?

I'm not belittling anyone, I'm giving my opinion. And it's an opinion shared by many knowledgeable Utd fans. They perform better than they should do and have done since Ronaldo left. That's what a good manager gives you.

Take note Khaldoon.

2 good teams cancelled each other out last night Dave.

When was the last time Joe had so little to do between the sticks?

We gave them a stern test last night and Ferguson and there shitty fans know it.


Its all pointless conjecture anyway until the seasons end Dave,unfortunately for Mancini and the fans the manager has an objective to gain CL football for next season-they are the facts wether we like it or not.

 

[Scrabble]

Absolutely correct. Mancini has one goal and one goal only, to get us into the top 4.

He is a very calculating individual, he knows exactly what he needs to do to get us there and he is going to do it no matter what people on here think.

He'll open up when he thinks its a good idea, judge him in May, I am ultra confident taht we shall be at least 4th

I don't agree and it worries me that a lot of City fans talk this way.

4th is his absolute bare minimum. Even if we finish 4th there's a chance we could be dumped on our arse by some Poznan team in the qualifier. That's not a chance the Shiekh and chairman will want to take.

I'd say 3rd is his minimum target.

But behind the scenes, I believe he was told, and agreed, that the challenge was to push the front runners. All his interviews early this season, and that of the club staff, confirmed that.

But now I sense some people are happy for us to battle for 4th.

We're better than that.

No we're not and it definitely concerns me that a lot of city fans think this way.

On what grounds are we better than this? We're a work in project, 4th would be a massive achievement, do not be blinded by the money spent, building a team takes time and yes I will be extraordinarily pleased to bebattling for 4th come may

 

[AustinBlue]

We're fourth in the table. We have barely had 2 weeks of our new players able to train together and were unable to field Balotelli. We played it safe against the perennial title challengers who haven't lost this season, and have scored far more goals than us. Way too early to judge our performances. We can be very pleased with our position.

More than anything, our team needs continuity of manager, so we can build a system and understanding and teamwork. I'll take Mancini's conservative approach with a new team over conceding goal after goal in the last minute and giving every opponent the belief that we are a soft touch.

 

[DD]

What is also interesting is that for the last three months, every City fan on here has been going on about United being a team in decline, nowhere near as good as they were, riding their luck blah blah.

Yet, we turn up, don't create a chance against them and all of a sudden it's not down to us, it's because United are a team of world beaters. :)

 

[Project]

And the manager is doing what is necessary to attain those results. I don't think RM gives a fuck what kind of football it takes to do so right now.

Besides - Liverpool, Chelsea, West Brom, Poznan at home, even Blackburn at home certainly wasn't boring.

5 out of 19 games being semi-entertaining is not a glowing reference.

You are right, he doesn't care but the point that grates is when we are happy to settle for a point in games that we need to be at least trying to win.

Last year he had a considerable amount of time to get us in the top four and he failed, so I really wouldn't hold any sway to the belief that his brand of football is going to fair any better this time.

It hasn't just been those 5 games though has it? I could bring Timisoira, Juve at home. Salzburg away. All good games. Wigan and Sunderland away were decent.

Yesterday and probably Newcastle were the only games I could say were "mind numbing", although at the very least the derby offered an interesting tactical battle.

 

[DD]

5 out of 19 games being semi-entertaining is not a glowing reference.

You are right, he doesn't care but the point that grates is when we are happy to settle for a point in games that we need to be at least trying to win.

Last year he had a considerable amount of time to get us in the top four and he failed, so I really wouldn't hold any sway to the belief that his brand of football is going to fair any better this time.

It hasn't just been those 5 games though has it? I could bring Timisoira, Juve at home. Salzburg away. All good games. Wigan and Sunderland away were decent.

Yesterday and probably Newcastle were the only games I could say were "mind numbing", although at the very least the derby offered an interesting tactical battle.

I'm sorry mate but I can't agree. In comparison to the vast majority of other games I have seen on TV, our games have been bloody dire.

Wigan away is an absolute minger of a game, so if that is our idea of decent entertainment, then it just goes to show how low the level of expectation is.

I haven't seen a properly entertaining football in terms of chances, breathtaking moves at speed etc, all season

 

[Project]

What is also interesting is that for the last three months, every City fan on here has been going on about United being a team in decline, nowhere near as good as they were, riding their luck blah blah.

Yet, we turn up, don't create a chance against them and all of a sudden it's not down to us, it's because United are a team of world beaters. :)

United are on the decline. It's why we feel close to or equal to them in squad terms in double quick time.

It just so happens that you don't have to be CL winners to still be a very good side. They amassed 85 points last season and are second this season.

But of course everything in life is a zero sum game right. You're either great or shite.

 

[samharris]

what a clown he is, we went for the win, yeah right.

makes Pearce look like Mourinho

When was the last time the scum had so few chances on goal against us ?? I certainly cant remember..This scum team although not that strong imho have mainly been together 3 plus years except that invisible pea...and were always gonna make it tough, they did and so did we..

we played better last time at coms but got beat which would you prefer ??
Dont let the fact that it was the rags get in the way of you opinion..
we had a thread on here b4 the WBA game about the next 3 games (WBA, Scum & Brum) and most were agreed that 7 points would be great, well only a win against the Brummies and we have the 7 points..

Bonnet de douche as Delboy trotter would say. :)

 

[Didsbury Dave]

It hasn't just been those 5 games though has it? I could bring Timisoira, Juve at home. Salzburg away. All good games. Wigan and Sunderland away were decent.

Yesterday and probably Newcastle were the only games I could say were "mind numbing", although at the very least the derby offered an interesting tactical battle.

I'm sorry mate but I can't agree. In comparison to the vast majority of other games I have seen on TV, our games have been bloody dire.

Wigan away is an absolute minger of a game, so if that is our idea of decent entertainment, then it just goes to show how low the level of expectation is.

I haven't seen a properly entertaining football in terms of chances, breathtaking moves at speed etc, all season

The thing is, I could live with boring football if it was playing to our strengths. But it isn't, is it? With Tevez, Johnson, Silva etc in there we should be looking to get at teams, and casue them problems. We actually did that against West Brom. So why not last night? Starting with Milner instead of Johnson was an immediate statement of intent. How many times did Milner get the ball in one on one situations? Yes, the kind of situations Adam Johnson excels in.

At half time the game looked there to be won. A bolder manager would have introduced Johnson, for Milner, then.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I'm sorry mate but I can't agree. In comparison to the vast majority of other games I have seen on TV, our games have been bloody dire.

Wigan away is an absolute minger of a game, so if that is our idea of decent entertainment, then it just goes to show how low the level of expectation is.

I haven't seen a properly entertaining football in terms of chances, breathtaking moves at speed etc, all season

The thing is, I could live with boring football if it was playing to our strengths. But it isn't, is it? With Tevez, Johnson, Silva etc in there we should be looking to get at teams, and casue them problems. We actually did that against West Brom. So why not last night? Starting with Milner instead of Johnson was an immediate statement of intent. How many times did Milner get the ball in one on one situations? Yes, the kind of situations Adam Johnson excels in.

At half time the game looked there to be won. A bolder manager would have introduced Johnson, for Milner, then.

A bolder manager would have introduced Hernandez and gone 4-4-2 with Berbatov and Hernandez when they were clearly on top in a game.

Works both ways, if Fergie was that scared of us to do that then I think we won the battle 2bh, we played that poorly in the 2nd half yet United wouldn't dare go for it.

 

[Project]

It hasn't just been those 5 games though has it? I could bring Timisoira, Juve at home. Salzburg away. All good games. Wigan and Sunderland away were decent.

Yesterday and probably Newcastle were the only games I could say were "mind numbing", although at the very least the derby offered an interesting tactical battle.

I'm sorry mate but I can't agree. In comparison to the vast majority of other games I have seen on TV, our games have been bloody dire.

Wigan away is an absolute minger of a game, so if that is our idea of decent entertainment, then it just goes to show how low the level of expectation is.

I haven't seen a properly entertaining football in terms of chances, breathtaking moves at speed etc, all season

Then I suggest your view of what counts as entertaining football is extremely narrow. Limited to pace, blood and thunder. Some of our stuff last week was sensational. Hopefully it becomes more consistent as the team gels further and important players return.

But ultimately there are no style points in football. Only those for results. And from that perspective we are doing well by most accounts.I'd love to be the most attractive side in the league as well as win things. If I had to choose one it would be to win. Mancini sees it the same way. If we can do so playing good stuff then fantastic.

 

[Project]

I agree on the inclusion of Milner. But ultimately Mancini went back to what has worked for him previously in big games. I can't argue with that.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

The thing is, I could live with boring football if it was playing to our strengths. But it isn't, is it? With Tevez, Johnson, Silva etc in there we should be looking to get at teams, and casue them problems. We actually did that against West Brom. So why not last night? Starting with Milner instead of Johnson was an immediate statement of intent. How many times did Milner get the ball in one on one situations? Yes, the kind of situations Adam Johnson excels in.

At half time the game looked there to be won. A bolder manager would have introduced Johnson, for Milner, then.

A bolder manager would have introduced Hernandez and gone 4-4-2 with Berbatov and Hernandez when they were clearly on top in a game.

Works both ways, if Fergie was that scared of us to do that then I think we won the battle 2bh, we played that poorly in the 2nd half yet United wouldn't dare go for it.

They were away and a point was a great result for them. Fergie knows we have the plyers to beat them.

We were at home and a point was a disappointment for us.

You really think Fergie wouldn't have gone for it at Old TRafford, second half, when it was obvious we were happy to contain?

 

[SWP's back]

I dont believe this is the case. There is a middle ground that realises we simply must finish in the top 4 this season. Our entire plan rests on it with the FFP regulations soon kicking in. And Mancini's job rests on it. So at the moment we are in the results business. And the manager is doing what is necessary to attain those results. I don't think RM gives a fuck what kind of football it takes to do so right now.

Besides - Liverpool, Chelsea, West Brom, Poznan at home, even Blackburn at home certainly wasn't boring.

That's where a lot of peoples fears stem from though. Last season the same excuses about results being more important than performances were trotted out. In the end we fell short...

This season, although we are 4th, we still seem to be dropping the same kind of points. The word trajectory springs to mind. Two steps forward one step back isn't going to lead to us comfortably finishing 4th IMO....it's going to lead to us doing battle with someone like Spurs or Liverpool in the last third of the season for that spot as we did last season...

Really?

This season Last season

Spurs a - 1pt 0pt
Liverpool - 3pts 1pt
Sunderland a - 0pt 1pt
Blackburn - 1pt 3pts
Wigan a - 3pts 1pt
Chelsea - 3pts 3pts
Newcastle (Burnley)- 3pts 1pt
Blackpool a (Hull) 3pts 0pts
Arsenal 0pt 3pts
Wolves a 0pt 3pts
West Brom (pompy)a 3pts 3pts
uts 1pt 0pt

22 18
So it's close but I put it a 4 points better than this time last season (with similar teams and I have been more than fair with the relegated teams but its not perfect).

So 4 points better with 12 games played (would equate to approx 12 points better if the trend continued for the whole season).

Considering we missed out on champs by 3 pts last season, I would say the trajectory is more than adequate.

What do you reckon?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry mate but I can't agree. In comparison to the vast majority of other games I have seen on TV, our games have been bloody dire.

Wigan away is an absolute minger of a game, so if that is our idea of decent entertainment, then it just goes to show how low the level of expectation is.

I haven't seen a properly entertaining football in terms of chances, breathtaking moves at speed etc, all season

Then I suggest your view of what counts as entertaining football is extremely narrow. Limited to pace, blood and thunder. Some of our stuff last week was sensational. Hopefully it becomes more consistent as the team gels further and important players return.

But ultimately there are no style points in football. Only those for results. And from that perspective we are doing well by most accounts.I'd love to be the most attractive side in the league as well as win things. If I had to choose one it would be to win. Mancini sees it the same way. If we can do so playing good stuff then fantastic.

That's the rub though Project....if you want to play as 'efficiently' for want of a better word, as Mancini does, you have to get results. So far this season has been a massively mixed bag of both performances and results. Much as his five months in charge last season was. The worry is that a team which should be comfortably finishing 4th may well find itself in another 'race' with Spurs or Liverpool come the last third of this season...

I can accept that things may change...but I see no evidence of that so far. Have we figured out a way to play in the league without Tevez for example?

Have we figured out how to change our system to a more attacking one when it's clear our opposition has turned up for a point?

Has Mancini shown he can effectively 'manage' his squad of 25 players and get big performances from the vast majority of them, when called upon?

These are the fine margins which separate winners from almost winners IMO...

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

A bolder manager would have introduced Hernandez and gone 4-4-2 with Berbatov and Hernandez when they were clearly on top in a game.

Works both ways, if Fergie was that scared of us to do that then I think we won the battle 2bh, we played that poorly in the 2nd half yet United wouldn't dare go for it.

They were away and a point was a great result for them. Fergie knows we have the plyers to beat them.

We were at home and a point was a disappointment for us.

You really think Fergie wouldn't have gone for it at Old TRafford, second half, when it was obvious we were happy to contain?

maybe they would, but it would have automatically freed up Silva and Tevez and we'd have then bollocked them imo, their 3 in midfield and their negative setup prevented us playing any form of game. We played poorly nonetheless, but a point is an improvement on last season and a good result imo, the aim is to beat everybody we should beat, and get good results against the big sides to show we can cut it. We beat Chelsea, Liverpool, drew with Spurs and United and Arsenal was a write off. Who knows if we click in 3 months when we go to these places away, we've got those results by being inconsistant, incohesive etc.

I'm far more unhappy with points to Blackburn at home, defeats by not trying against WBA in the Cup and losses to Wolves away than a stalemate point v United, but that's just me, then again, I'm happy with 4th, I don't see how we'd ever win the league with the squad we have, so I don't have that expectation.

 

[AustinBlue]

Don't forget we had one day less of rest than United. That's not insignificant given how we play. We don't boot the long ball.

 

[SWP's back]

Absolutely correct. Mancini has one goal and one goal only, to get us into the top 4.

He is a very calculating individual, he knows exactly what he needs to do to get us there and he is going to do it no matter what people on here think.

He'll open up when he thinks its a good idea, judge him in May, I am ultra confident taht we shall be at least 4th

I don't agree and it worries me that a lot of City fans talk this way.

4th is his absolute bare minimum. Even if we finish 4th there's a chance we could be dumped on our arse by some Poznan team in the qualifier. That's not a chance the Shiekh and chairman will want to take.

I'd say 3rd is his minimum target.
But behind the scenes, I believe he was told, and agreed, that the challenge was to push the front runners. All his interviews early this season, and that of the club staff, confirmed that.

But now I sense some people are happy for us to battle for 4th.

We're better than that.

Nearly 1/3 of the way through the season and we are 2 pts off 3rd and 3 off 2nd.

If Zabba had a left foot we would be jnt 2nd by now (or if Carlos has scored an open goal Vs Sunderland).

It is churlish to suggest we are not doing well by any stretch. We are closer to 2nd than Utd are to 1st and their fans aren't calling for heads/changes.

As for getting knocked out by some "Poznan" team. Do you really think Poznan would stand a chance against our FIRST team?

-- Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:07 pm --

It hasn't just been those 5 games though has it? I could bring Timisoira, Juve at home. Salzburg away. All good games. Wigan and Sunderland away were decent.

Yesterday and probably Newcastle were the only games I could say were "mind numbing", although at the very least the derby offered an interesting tactical battle.

I'm sorry mate but I can't agree. In comparison to the vast majority of other games I have seen on TV, our games have been bloody dire.

Wigan away is an absolute minger of a game, so if that is our idea of decent entertainment, then it just goes to show how low the level of expectation is.

I haven't seen a properly entertaining football in terms of chances, breathtaking moves at speed etc, all season

Then go support Barca or watch NFL.

Some fans make me despair. I fucking hated losing 4-3 at the swamp last year depite it being "entertaining" and comments like yours above really do make me question what some City fans want. If it is instant miracles then you are going to be sorely dissappointed.

I won't however as I am a realist.<br /><br />-- Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:13 pm --<br /><br />

What is also interesting is that for the last three months, every City fan on here has been going on about United being a team in decline, nowhere near as good as they were, riding their luck blah blah.

Yet, we turn up, don't create a chance against them and all of a sudden it's not down to us, it's because United are a team of world beaters. :)

It is the same idiots that said Utd were shit (despite finishing 2nd in the prem) that are complaining today that we didn't "put them to the sword" and as they say - you can't argue with an idiot as they are better at it.

 

[bluelol]

Quote me if I'm wrong, but was it not all these so called pundit comments in the passed and present telling us with great delite that you can't buy a team of good players and enjoy success, they have to gel to be successfull.

Last night we sent a team of very good players individually at the moment, that have not played together for 12 months on to the same field as a team that have been playing together for years appart from the odd addition.

Give it time and stop feeding the media with information for gods sake we are forth and going in the right direction with a future, if you want to complain support that lot in red then you will have a problem.

Come On City.