Mancini

[shawgorbie]

The problem is the amount of time and work you put into helping them and encouraging them to fit. As you point out Mancini doesn't do that. You're either self motivated or not. That's clearly a problem when you buy expensive players who aren't self motivated. Mancini's job is to manage. The fact you are so blase at his lack of management is, honestly, a bit odd.

No. Mancini does no doubt put time and work into getting them to fit. As do the rest of the coaching staff. Especially if like Nasri you have the talent. But I think Mancini comes to a conclusion pretty quickly and thereafter you are on borrowed time. At some point with Mancini you have to man up. If you don't well then there is the door. It is not about lack of management. Mancini does manage. Its just that you don't like the way he does it whereas I am comfortable with it. Always have been.
te="BillyShears"]Berbatov was at United for 4 seasons and played regularly scoring shit loads of goals for his first three. Nani and Anderson have been there 6 seasons. The time has been spent to try and get the best out of them and the most value for the club out of them.

Dzeko plays regularly and scores shit loads of goals. So bleeding what? Berbs did not fit into the MU culture under Taggart and was ushered out the door. Nani is running his contract down and Andersen is still trapped in a pie shop somewhere. Cracking value.

What you're conveniently ignoring is the mooted fire sale this summer where the players who Mancini believes doesn't have the right mentality, should be moved on. As I said, Balo's gone, add Nasri and Dzeko to that list. Players who've been at the club 18 months/2 seasons.

Well yes. I am ignoring things that have not yet happened. This thread often wanders into its own mystical wonderland without me adding to it. I will happily discuss future events when and if they come to pass.

I'm finding your take on this very very odd. Almost as if you're wilfully ignoring what's best for the club in order to justify Mancini's own shortcomings as a man and a manager.

Billy. Your take on what is best for the club starts and ends with Mancini being a c**t who needs sacking off like...well about 2 years ago. Since in that 2 years we haven't done too badly I am comfortable with my own take on things.[/quote]
only read upto here and agree with this post.I think it odd that winning the league(oh I forgot we were lucky)and the Fa cup in 2 years with a possible cup this year is bad for the club.I wonder if some people want us to win the cup this year,goes against their agenda and whats best for the club

 

[Anonymous]

And it could be argued that if we do make a change in the summer, then it is because Txixi wants his own puppet, a yes man to do his bidding, rather than a strong character like our current manager.

It's interesting that the characterisation of any new manager seems be that of a puppet, which I find odd because if you look back at his appointments at Barca, neither man was a puppet. Both Rijkaard and Pep did their jobs whilst working with Txiki and neither man ever complained about the levels of control they had. Rijkaard dropped Ronaldinho when he found out the guy was tapping his daughter, and Pep came in and asked to have Ronaldinho, Deco, and Eto'o sold because he didn't want them. There was a clear structure in place as outlined in Graham Hunter's book, and it worked.

The point with Mancini is simply that he has at times intimated he wants more control over everything at the club, whereas by bringing in Txiki his control has been diminished on the technical/footballing side. The question for me isn't one of whether the next guy is a "yes" man, but of whether Mancini and Txiki have the capacity to work together in the manner in which Txiki worked with Rijkaard and then Pep.

I think we need to understand better exactly what this power Mancini wants is. Does he want to run the club? Conduct contract negotiations? Own the club? Run the City Store? Does he have a blueprint for the business?

I've no idea personally. The biggest clash I can envisage is if Txiki insists on adopting a particulary, rigid formation of football as mooted by the shit sheets, ie 4-3-3. I would expect Mancini wouldn't accept that.

So, other than that, I'm not entirely sure what this power is Mancini wants?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

And it could be argued that if we do make a change in the summer, then it is because Txixi wants his own puppet, a yes man to do his bidding, rather than a strong character like our current manager.

It's interesting that the characterisation of any new manager seems be that of a puppet, which I find odd because if you look back at his appointments at Barca, neither man was a puppet. Both Rijkaard and Pep did their jobs whilst working with Txiki and neither man ever complained about the levels of control they had. Rijkaard dropped Ronaldinho when he found out the guy was tapping his daughter, and Pep came in and asked to have Ronaldinho, Deco, and Eto'o sold because he didn't want them. There was a clear structure in place as outlined in Graham Hunter's book, and it worked.

The point with Mancini is simply that he has at times intimated he wants more control over everything at the club, whereas by bringing in Txiki his control has been diminished on the technical/footballing side. The question for me isn't one of whether the next guy is a "yes" man, but of whether Mancini and Txiki have the capacity to work together in the manner in which Txiki worked with Rijkaard and then Pep.

I think we need to understand better exactly what this power Mancini wants is. Does he want to run the club? Conduct contract negotiations? Own the club? Run the City Store? Does he have a blueprint for the business?

I've no idea personally. The biggest clash I can envisage is if Txiki insists on adopting a particulary, rigid formation of football as mooted by the shit sheets, ie 4-3-3. I would expect Mancini wouldn't accept that.

So, other than that, I'm not entirely sure what this power is Mancini wants?

Mancini wants every player he wants signed, no questions asked simply.

 

[mad zab]

That's completely wrong.

Just as Yaya being sanctioned a new contract came down to Begiristain and Soriano, not Abu Dhabi.

Everything else within the club and transfers fair enough,they have the last word
As for them sacking mancini
I just cannot believe they wouldnt run that past the chairman & owner tolm..

Don't think anybody is naive enough to believe Begiristain would just ring up Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoon and say, 'Alright, guys, sacked Mancini today'.

I just don't have our owner down as an Abramovich-type figure, one who believes he should make all the key decisions, simply because of the money they have poured in.

We are not a dictatorship in that respect. It's splitting hairs, I know, as by your original comment, they will will always have the last word.

Just believe they have handed these guys a clear and trusted mandate to make the calls.

Otherwise, they are effectively puppets.

I agree with you on that TH.

What I would like to ask is why you believe that Mancini is on his way?

If this was the case, don't you think it would be all over the newspapers?

Also, your brother Zin seems to disagree.

 

[Anonymous]

It's interesting that the characterisation of any new manager seems be that of a puppet, which I find odd because if you look back at his appointments at Barca, neither man was a puppet. Both Rijkaard and Pep did their jobs whilst working with Txiki and neither man ever complained about the levels of control they had. Rijkaard dropped Ronaldinho when he found out the guy was tapping his daughter, and Pep came in and asked to have Ronaldinho, Deco, and Eto'o sold because he didn't want them. There was a clear structure in place as outlined in Graham Hunter's book, and it worked.

The point with Mancini is simply that he has at times intimated he wants more control over everything at the club, whereas by bringing in Txiki his control has been diminished on the technical/footballing side. The question for me isn't one of whether the next guy is a "yes" man, but of whether Mancini and Txiki have the capacity to work together in the manner in which Txiki worked with Rijkaard and then Pep.

I think we need to understand better exactly what this power Mancini wants is. Does he want to run the club? Conduct contract negotiations? Own the club? Run the City Store? Does he have a blueprint for the business?

I've no idea personally. The biggest clash I can envisage is if Txiki insists on adopting a particulary, rigid formation of football as mooted by the shit sheets, ie 4-3-3. I would expect Mancini wouldn't accept that.

So, other than that, I'm not entirely sure what this power is Mancini wants?

Mancini wants every player he wants signed, no questions asked simply.

I think the answer to Strongbow's question is two fold. Firstly, you're right, it'll be about transfer policy. The way it worked at Barcelona (which although not gospel for how it will work at City, is at least a decent guide), was that the manager would identify a position he felt needed strengthening. Txiki would then supply the manager with three options for how best to fill that position. Although there would be a discussion, the final decision on which player was signed would be with Txiki - with the caveat that the manager would have a power of veto. Sounds messy but it isn't really. You can sign Hazard, Alexis Sanchez, or Shaqiri. Txiki says "Sanchez is the one" - manager say "absolutely not, don't want him" - Txiki says fine, then Shaqiri is the man. The point being that the initial targets are identified by the DoF, and then the final decision on which one is signed is taken by him. In the middle there's discussion to see if there's any concerns from the manager's side.

Secondly on the playing/tactics side. The DoF will ensure that there is a continuity in the way the team plays from the youth teams all the way up to the first team. This means that yes, there will be a defined system of some description which the manager will have to adhere to, but i don't see it as being as binary is "you play 433". Managers have to be adaptable with their tactics depending on the situation, but overall they have to play in a way which makes the transition from youth team into the first team easier.

On both fronts I can see Mancini having problems because he just doesn't strike me as someone who can handle being told what to do in any situation.

 

[Anonymous]

Having managed Fiorentina, Lazio and Inter Milan, Mancini might have been expected to be more comfortable operating like his counterparts do back home. In Italy it is commonplace for managers to involve themselves only with tactics and the players at their disposal, while others do the buying, selling and contract negotiations.

The Italian, however, does not believe that method offers him the best chance of taking Manchester City forward although Cook and Marwood are liable to disagree. “For me it’s difficult because I have only been here for 18 months or so,” said Mancini. “Maybe I need to have more control of the team and the other situations. For a manager that’s very important.

“Maybe if I win the Premier League this season it will be different. It’s important for the manager to have control over the players and the medical staff and the other situations.

“It is different from Italy where managers do not have this control and I prefer the English style because if the manager loses, the manager is sacked, and for this I think the manager needs to take every decision. If he makes a mistake he pays for it.”

So, he has control over the players (for now). I think he has control of the medical staff (I'm sure he's bombed some out and got his own boys in).

Wonder what the "...other situations." are?

In terms of player acquisition, then I think most agree it should improve given the new boys; so another tick in the box.

He also speaks of accountability for his role and (reading between the lines) ensuring he is not set up to fail.

All of that seems logical to me?

Going back to Txiki, he empowered both Rijkaard and Guardiola to make the "big" decisions over players. Another tick in the box?

Txiki got in the players those two managers asked for. Another tick in the box?

Maybe I'm just reading into it what I want to see, I'm an old fool after all, but seems to me there COULD be a good relationship built between the two?

 

[Rammy Blue]

Maybe I'm just reading into it what I want to see, I'm an old fool after all, but seems to me there COULD be a good relationship built between the two?

Considering that Bob dismissed Ferran and Txiki with his, "They are not above me", comment then I'd say it's highly unlikely that a decent relationship could exist....

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe I'm just reading into it what I want to see, I'm an old fool after all, but seems to me there COULD be a good relationship built between the two?

There's absolutely no reason for Mancini not to embrace to current set up at City, and I totally agree there's no reason for him and Txiki not to have a strong relationship considering they're respective footballing background. What I do think is true though, is that Mancini's words aren't ambiguous, neither in that interview above, nor in his recent interview where he said this:

The one flicker of indignation during two hours in his company comes when I ask how he gets on with the two people above him. "Txiki and Ferran? They are not above me," he points out. "Above me there is only Khaldoon [Al Mubarak] and Sheikh Mansour."

Irrespective of whether it's true or not about Txiki and Ferran being above him or next to him, the fact that he felt compelled to say something like that highlights for me an abrasive problem with authority, which lets face it he's had since he was a player. Mancini definitely sees himself as God's gift to football, I'm sorry if that sounds like an unfair thing to say, but that's really the impression he gives. It's hard to imagine a man with an ego that big deferring to Txiki on player acquisition, or indeed for any football related matter.

That's just my take, and as you said, I might just be reading into it what suits me.

 

[moomba]

Maybe I'm just reading into it what I want to see, I'm an old fool after all, but seems to me there COULD be a good relationship built between the two?

Considering that Bob dismissed Ferran and Txiki with his, "They are not above me", comment then I'd say it's highly unlikely that a decent relationship could exist....

Maybe they're not above him in the management structure.

Going back to that first interview he said player acquisitions were a joint responsibility between him, Cook and Marwood.

Maybe the current setup isn't going to be the big revolution some of expect.

 

[decmancity]

Regardless of what has or hasn't been said personally I think Mancini will be here next year unless we reach a situation in the summer where Txiki feels like he can't work with Mancini.
If that situation happens then Mancini will be sacked and replaced quickly and efficiently but I think that we have to give both of them time to see if they can work together before speculating about their relationship now when they have hardly any time to make changes or really sit down and work out where to go with the team.