Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

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flb said:
Mister Appointment said:
Cheesy said:
Simple question... who has improved since Pellers took over?

Nasri, Silva, Aguero, Clichy, Toure, Dzeko, Kolarov, etc.


Wouldn't say Clichy has got any better-he had his best season under the former manager in the title winning season and I'm talking defensively not offensively , who has got better THIS season?


On the flip side who has got worse?


The whole back five for starters.

That is a bit harsh on Clichy. I am not his greatest fan but he has impressed me these last couple of months.

As for the others, you are correct about Kompany and Zabaleta. The latter being awful all season. Kolorov has also reverted to shit.

Silva isn't playing as well, Nasri and Navas haven't scored one goal in the prem all season and Fernandinho looks like a pub player at times. He has regressed more than anyone. You could throw in Hart and Dzeko and it doesn't make pretty reading.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
flb said:
Mister Appointment said:
Nasri, Silva, Aguero, Clichy, Toure, Dzeko, Kolarov, etc.


Wouldn't say Clichy has got any better-he had his best season under the former manager in the title winning season and I'm talking defensively not offensively , who has got better THIS season?


On the flip side who has got worse?


The whole back five for starters.

That is a bit harsh on Clichy. I am not his greatest fan but he has impressed me these last couple of months.

As for the others, you are correct about Kompany and Zabaleta. The latter being awful all season. Kolorov has also reverted to shit.

Silva isn't playing as well, Nasri and Navas haven't scored one goal in the prem all season and Fernandinho looks like a pub player at times. He has regressed more than anyone. You could throw in Hart and Dzeko and it doesn't make pretty reading.

Perhaps a tad unfair on Clichy but come on mate he is only doing what he should be doing, he is not pulling trees up and he gets one good cross in ten percent of the time.

Our defence is a fucking disgrace though as a whole.
 
sam-caddick said:
Balti said:
going backwards again after a promising run

is he really any better than Bobby? I'm still not convinced

Mancini was the perfect manager at the right time for us but he isn't this world class manager everyone makes him out to be. His man management is very poor and his tactics get exposed badly in the Champions League, albeit I do think he is better tactically than Manuel.

Pellegrini's biggest strength is his man management but tactically he is average in my opinion, for me he relies too much on a system of play that is played to create moments of individual brilliance, if those magic moments don't occur or the team is is having a bad day at the office the whole system collapses and he doesn't seem to have anywhere to go.

I can't see Pellegrini being here next season as I just hope Txiki and co go for the proven world class manager this team needs, i.e. Pep, Ancelotti, Simeone etc...

I will be disappointed if we go for another holistic yes man who just plays fantastic football, I want some grit and fight!

Pep would be the dream appointment.
Based on recent performances is Pellegrini's man management not worth calling into question yet?

They're not exactly tearing every sinew for him.
 
NQCitizen said:
sam-caddick said:
Balti said:
going backwards again after a promising run

is he really any better than Bobby? I'm still not convinced

Mancini was the perfect manager at the right time for us but he isn't this world class manager everyone makes him out to be. His man management is very poor and his tactics get exposed badly in the Champions League, albeit I do think he is better tactically than Manuel.

Pellegrini's biggest strength is his man management but tactically he is average in my opinion, for me he relies too much on a system of play that is played to create moments of individual brilliance, if those magic moments don't occur or the team is is having a bad day at the office the whole system collapses and he doesn't seem to have anywhere to go.

I can't see Pellegrini being here next season as I just hope Txiki and co go for the proven world class manager this team needs, i.e. Pep, Ancelotti, Simeone etc...

I will be disappointed if we go for another holistic yes man who just plays fantastic football, I want some grit and fight!

Pep would be the dream appointment.
Based on recent performances is Pellegrini's man management not worth calling into question yet?

They're not exactly tearing every sinew for him.


He's hit the brick wall now for me, he's taken this squad as far as he can-we either let him spunk £100million on new talent which makes me nervous or we consolidate for another season and prey Pep will come in and spend the money instead.

Judging by the crap we have bought in the forward, midfield and defensive positions can he be trusted with a war chest? Granted Txiki is the DOF but he surely must have some impact on who comes in?
 
Alan Smith in the Telegraph is a knob but his column today has some good points, apart from referencing GPC

As the years go by, the achievements of Sir Alex Ferguson seem to grow in stature. How he rebuilt his Manchester United team several times over, how he cleverly man‑managed his squad and how he won the title for the last time with perhaps the weakest group of the lot.
The most impressive feat, for me, was watching him go again after winning the Premier League by making sure his players did not ease off. Five times he did it, retain the title, by ensuring his team did not lose hunger.
Looking back, that achievement takes on an almost mystical quality, especially when measured against the recent struggles in this department of Manchester City. Where Roberto Mancini failed after City’s memorable triumph in 2012, Manuel Pellegrini appears to be following suit.
With 14 games to go, seven points, granted, is not an insurmountable deficit. That said, Chelsea do not look in the mood to be handing over gifts, just as City do not look anything like potential champions just now.
For that, the buck clearly stops with Pellegrini, the man who may be straining the patience of those above. The experienced Chilean, after all, has overseen some very strange performances this season when discipline and motivation looked in short supply.

If the draw with Hull City on Saturday was lacklustre, getting knocked out of the Capital One Cup at home by a sub-strength Newcastle United team was mystifying, as was the decision to fly back late from Abu Dhabi before the FA Cup defeat against Middlesbrough.
The nadir for me, though, was a 2-1 Champions League defeat in November against a very average CSKA Moscow side when both Fernandinho and Yaya Touré got sent off after completely losing the plot. But then City recovered by memorably beating Roma to set up a last-16 date with Barcelona this month. So their season is far from over, at home or in Europe. An upturn in fortunes could yet lead to something special.
On the flip side, should City fall to Barcelona and Chelsea increase the gap, this ambitious club may feel the time is ripe for change. And it wouldn’t help Pellegrini’s cause that a possible successor already sits on the books.
Patrick Vieira is held in high regard. Very high. As head of City’s elite development squad, the conscientious Frenchman is doing things the right way in learning his coaching trade out of the spotlight. In an ideal world, Vieira would probably want to gain a lot more experience, whether at City or somewhere else, before jumping in to a top job.
Sometimes, however, you cannot pick and choose. A chance arises that is impossible to refuse. And just like Pep Guardiola at Barcelona, the World Cup winner bears the stature, authority and charisma to succeed as a rookie on the big stage. Vieira is certainly an option were City to make a change, whether in the summer or a little earlier.
For now, though, Pellegrini is entrusted with the job of kicking some backsides, starting with the tricky trip to Stoke City on Wednesday. By winning two league titles in four years, City have finally moved out of United’s shadow. Yet emulating Ferguson’s ability to maintain desire has proved a little harder for the two men involved.
 
Mikejl said:
Alan Smith in the Telegraph is a knob but his column today has some good points, apart from referencing GPC


For now, though, Pellegrini is entrusted with the job of kicking some backsides, starting with the tricky trip to Stoke City on Wednesday. By winning two league titles in four years, City have finally moved out of United’s shadow. Yet emulating Ferguson’s ability to maintain desire has proved a little harder for the two men involved.

But that man was given time, we cannot and must not (IMHO) keep chopping and changing managers. It is time for true stability, 2 seasons is not enough. Six weeks ago we were the team who were on the verge of breaking the record of number of wins on the trot and the team and the manager were great now suddenly they are the worst in the world apparently!! (Not by me I hasten to add)

Let us stick with Pellegrini and get back on track (hopefully) please. :-)
 
I don't think our owner deals in failure, MP knows this and I would say he has to either turn this around quickly or he will be history by the end of the season
 
Eccles Blue said:
Mikejl said:
Alan Smith in the Telegraph is a knob but his column today has some good points, apart from referencing GPC


For now, though, Pellegrini is entrusted with the job of kicking some backsides, starting with the tricky trip to Stoke City on Wednesday. By winning two league titles in four years, City have finally moved out of United’s shadow. Yet emulating Ferguson’s ability to maintain desire has proved a little harder for the two men involved.

But that man was given time, we cannot and must not (IMHO) keep chopping and changing managers. It is time for true stability, 2 seasons is not enough. Six weeks ago we were the team who were on the verge of breaking the record of number of wins on the trot and the team and the manager were great now suddenly they are the worst in the world apparently!! (Not by me I hasten to add)

Let us stick with Pellegrini and get back on track (hopefully) please. :-)

Completely agree with your way of thinking Eccles.
 
Shaelumstash said:
The main criticism I had of Pellegrini after his first 3 months in charge is that he is not adaptable. He plays the same way, no matter who we are playing. It makes us predictable and easy to figure out for opposition managers. In fairness to him, when we were without a striker in December, he changed the make up of the team, adapted and we played well. Credit to him for that. But really we only changed out of necessity.

Yesterday against Hull, if Yaya was fit, is there any doubt in anyone's mind whatsoever that he would have started? It would probably have been a straight swap for Fernando. As I mentioned earlier, they couldn't really be more different as players. Except for both looking rather lethargic on occasions, Yaya dominates the ball, dictates play, powers through oppositions with his strength and power. Fernando trudges around the centre circle hoping nobody notices he's hiding.

Yet despite these differences in their style of play, Pellegrini will swap them, one for one and expect the same outcome. This is Hull at home, a relegation fighting team. Yaya would have dominated their midfield, we would have took the game to them. Instead we play the apparently defensive minded Fernando. Why? Lampard or Milner are both better on the ball than Fernando, more drive going forwards, better passers, Milner has a higher work rate, Lampard has a great eye for goal. Yet Fernando is picked. Why?

If we were playing Tottenham at home yesterday we'd have picked exactly the same starting line up as we did against Hull. This despite the fact Tottenham are a high pressing, front foot team who play 4 at the back. Hull are a lethargic, relegation threatened team play 3 at the back, which you would assume means we could do with some width and pace to exploit the space down their wings. But Navas, despite coming off the back of his best game for City, is on the bench. Why?

I think the answer to both questions is that Pellegrini doesn't even consider the characteristics of the other team. It's basically an irrelevance to him. He thinks as long as we have "trust" it will all work out in the end. I understand this may have been passed down from above as part of the "hollistic" approach. Well is you are Barcelona 2009-2012 which are probably the best team ever assembled, and you are playing in a league where realistically only two other teams have got any chance of giving you a game, it's fine to be arrogant enough to just stick to what you like and not consider the opposition. But this is the Premier League, the most competitive league in the world. Anyone can beat anyone, as is proven every single week.

You have to take in to account the strengths and weaknesses of other teams, the strengths and weaknesses of your team, and come up with a game plan for every single game in order to win it. Ferguson did this for years. He may have stuck to the same kind of ideals, but if a team had a slow fullback, you can guarantee he's play his quickest winger against him. Pellegrini doesn't look at the game like that.

Navas playing well against Chelsea wasn't by design. It was an accident of being the only right winger available. If Nasri had been fit, Navas probably wouldn't have been played. Navas should have started against Hull to expose the space down their channels. Lampard or Milner should have played instead of Fernando because our midfield should have been on the front foot, not sitting deep and defending against Hull. This is not some kind of specialist tactical insight, it's just common sense!

Whether these decisions are being made by Pellegrini, or above his head, one thing is for sure, with our strongest 11 available, we are good enough to stick to our favoured shape / way of playing and beat anyone in this league. But when that strongest 11 is not available, we have to adapt. We have to analyse our opponents, analyse who we have available, and figure out a game plan of how to win.

Winning is more important than being holistic.

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