Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[flb]

Manuel has done fine in his time in charge but this is going to be the first time our current great squad/team needs a major overhauling and I don't think the owner/directors will give the Manuel the job of over seeing it! Time for a new man in the summer somebody who is going to be there for at least the next 5 seasons! I'd love simone but get the feeling its going to be pep!

Totally agree mate, why give Manuel a say in transfers when he would be entering the last year of his contract? We have to buy well in the next window now restrictions appear to be lifted -we cant fuck around anymore like we have in the past three windows buying average untested players like Jovetic,Mangala & Fernando.

Its shit or get off the pot time now, we either give Manuel a new contract or let him do his final year.

The thought of him spending a decent budget doesn't really fill me with confidence to be honest.

Big window the next one-especially for our DOF.

 

[crystal_mais]

still baffled by that, i'm sure the agenderist will put me right :-)

So Silva being pushed in the back in the pen box is not a penalty?

absolutely it is, but more about the ref being bent rather than an error or simply didn't think it was

can of worms - that little bit of luck last few weeks and we are taklking a different story

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

The main criticism I had of Pellegrini after his first 3 months in charge is that he is not adaptable. He plays the same way, no matter who we are playing. It makes us predictable and easy to figure out for opposition managers. In fairness to him, when we were without a striker in December, he changed the make up of the team, adapted and we played well. Credit to him for that. But really we only changed out of necessity.

Yesterday against Hull, if Yaya was fit, is there any doubt in anyone's mind whatsoever that he would have started? It would probably have been a straight swap for Fernando. As I mentioned earlier, they couldn't really be more different as players. Except for both looking rather lethargic on occasions, Yaya dominates the ball, dictates play, powers through oppositions with his strength and power. Fernando trudges around the centre circle hoping nobody notices he's hiding.

Yet despite these differences in their style of play, Pellegrini will swap them, one for one and expect the same outcome. This is Hull at home, a relegation fighting team. Yaya would have dominated their midfield, we would have took the game to them. Instead we play the apparently defensive minded Fernando. Why? Lampard or Milner are both better on the ball than Fernando, more drive going forwards, better passers, Milner has a higher work rate, Lampard has a great eye for goal. Yet Fernando is picked. Why?

If we were playing Tottenham at home yesterday we'd have picked exactly the same starting line up as we did against Hull. This despite the fact Tottenham are a high pressing, front foot team who play 4 at the back. Hull are a lethargic, relegation threatened team play 3 at the back, which you would assume means we could do with some width and pace to exploit the space down their wings. But Navas, despite coming off the back of his best game for City, is on the bench. Why?

I think the answer to both questions is that Pellegrini doesn't even consider the characteristics of the other team. It's basically an irrelevance to him. He thinks as long as we have "trust" it will all work out in the end. I understand this may have been passed down from above as part of the "hollistic" approach. Well is you are Barcelona 2009-2012 which are probably the best team ever assembled, and you are playing in a league where realistically only two other teams have got any chance of giving you a game, it's fine to be arrogant enough to just stick to what you like and not consider the opposition. But this is the Premier League, the most competitive league in the world. Anyone can beat anyone, as is proven every single week.

You have to take in to account the strengths and weaknesses of other teams, the strengths and weaknesses of your team, and come up with a game plan for every single game in order to win it. Ferguson did this for years. He may have stuck to the same kind of ideals, but if a team had a slow fullback, you can guarantee he's play his quickest winger against him. Pellegrini doesn't look at the game like that.

Navas playing well against Chelsea wasn't by design. It was an accident of being the only right winger available. If Nasri had been fit, Navas probably wouldn't have been played. Navas should have started against Hull to expose the space down their channels. Lampard or Milner should have played instead of Fernando because our midfield should have been on the front foot, not sitting deep and defending against Hull. This is not some kind of specialist tactical insight, it's just common sense!

Whether these decisions are being made by Pellegrini, or above his head, one thing is for sure, with our strongest 11 available, we are good enough to stick to our favoured shape / way of playing and beat anyone in this league. But when that strongest 11 is not available, we have to adapt. We have to analyse our opponents, analyse who we have available, and figure out a game plan of how to win.

Winning is more important than being holistic.

Post of the thread and by some distance.

Thanks a lot mate. Most of the other mods have accused me of being a WUM for saying similar things, good to know at least one mod has got his head screwed on :-)

Roll on Wednesday, let's go and stuff them and show them why we're champions.

Your inability to ever go 5 minutes without having a whine about how badly you've been treated, is such that I'm inclined to believe that you are in fact a Scouser.

The bigger point with regard the footballing thing, is that our difficulties go way beyond Pellegrini not legislating for the opposition's strengths (if indeed that's true at all, when only last week for example he selected Sagna, a stay at home jockeyer, rather than fans favourite Zabaleta, a marauding diver inner, specifically to negate the threat of Hazard).
The club, under the overall stewardship of Txixi and Ferian, is in the process of installing a particular footballing philosophy - largely modelled, rightly or wrongly (and personally I think it's a mistake), on tika taka - throughout the entire club, from the U10's right the way through to the first team, and the problem that both the club and the manager has, is that the squad has been broadly assembled to play that way. Aggressive front foot defenders, full backs providing the width, intricate triangular passing moves to bring those full backs into play etc etc.

Whilst we have been horrendously unlucky with injuries, the squad is (and has been for 2 or 3 years) lacking when it comes to the fundamental attributes needed to adapt our playing style. Navas is the only winger at the club and the only attacking player with any real pace, and even he is horribly one dimensional; a push and chase merchant who lacks any kind of trickery to wrong foot opponents, which he why he so frequently cuts inside or turns and lays the ball backwards. The lack of pace and/or anyone who can dribble is a real handicap for us then in terms of our ability to counterattack, and indeed to drag parked buses out of position. And with regards the latter tactic, which the rags under Taggart used to circumvent by practising endless evil crossing drills at Carrington, we have no-one, bar Kolarov, whose presence weakens the team overall anyway, who can put in anything other than floaty inaccurate crap from the flanks; manna from heaven for the clod hopper centre halves at Burnley, Hull and Stoke.

Whilst Pellegrini's team selection on Saturday was inexcusable in both the inclusion of Dzeko and the expectation that Fernando, an out and out spoiler, should be considered capable of acting as a de facto attacking conduit, the team that played most of the 2nd half was the one that most of us would probably have picked from the off (given who was available), and yet whilst it looked more mobile and lively overall, it yielded barely any more goal scoring chances than the woefully unbalanced set of plodders did in the first half.

People keep seeming surprised that we can go to places like Chelsea and do well, and yet come unstuck against the lesser teams. The simple reason is that those lesser teams make it fantastically difficult for us, to the point that anyone and everyone below about 5th place parks a fleet of buses whenever they play us, and indeed the teams currently lying 1st, 3rd and 6th have all come to the Etihad this season and done it to us as well. We are uniquely ill equipped to circumvent this tactic for the reasons described, and whilst Pellegrini should rightly take criticism for some truly inexplicable team selections this season, I genuinely don't think that any other manager out there would fare significantly better with the players we currently have at our disposal. Whether that's Pellegrini's fault, or that of those above him doing the buying and imposing the philosophy, is harder to call IMO

 

[the originalkippaxman]

Some great posts on here. My concern with Pellegrini is he doesn't seem to have an idea of what qualities and strengths his players can offer and in what formation.

Fernando and Fernandinho work well together in a 4-5-1 which is allowing a creative midfielder behind the striker. They have never worked well together in a 4-4-2. They are very similar in being a defence midfielder breaking play up with very limited creativity. That is not a bad thing we had a great example in that when we had Nigel. Pelle got it so badly wrong on Saturday and should have played Milner in the middle instead of one of them or play with 1 up front. He is making too many of these mistakes with his formations thinking he can just throw 11 men out and they will get the win.

Fuck knows what formation and team he will play then once Bony is in the team

44 fucking 2 i presume !

But with Bony we will have the return of Yaya or did you forget that. But as mentioned in my post if we play that 44 fucking 2 formation we cant play both of the Ferns in the same team need a more creative midfielder. Someone like.................... oh one minute like Fucking Yaya Toure.

 

[chris85mcfc]

ExeterBlue - I do agree that we are constantly playing against parked buses at the Etihad, but we were also faced with that problem for most of last season as well.

We have been crying out for genuine pace and trickery for 2 or 3 seasons as the amount of buses parked at the Etihad has been increasing year on year, and it will only get worse the more successful we are/unsuccessful we are at breaking them down, so either way were just going to have to get used to it.

I'm not Navas biggest fan by any stretch, but Saturday was crying out for him to start the game against a team that virtually played 5 at the back at times. Bringing Dzeko back in without any width in the team what-so-ever is just asking for trouble, as it means he has to get more involved in build up play as we try and force our way through the middle of the congested pitch.

At the moment we don't have the answer in our squad to the questions we are being asked by the likes of Hull when they come to the Etihad. It is just going to take patience and a bit of luck and then hopefully we can get some confidence back, as right now I wouldn't back us to beat anybody regardless of who is available, confidence is key and at the moment we look drastically short of it.

 

[BillyShears]

Your inability to ever go 5 minutes without having a whine about how badly you've been treated, is such that I'm inclined to believe that you are in fact a Scouser.

Hahahaha. The truest thing posted in the last few pages of this thread!

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Agree with a lot of that, EB. We are having a real problem breaking teams down at the moment, and that's why we are dropping points at home rather than away. You've got to factor in the fact that the way we used to deal with that was with clever interchanges between silva, Nasri, yaya and Aguero. All season we have had to cope without several of those players, whether they were injured, away or half fit. On Saturday we had three of them but Nasri was nowhere near fit, Sergio can't seem to get back firing and it's not happening for silva at the moment because his form has dropped off following a few man-marking jobs when he was the sole playmaker.

Pellegrini's problem on Saturday was that he seemed to lose his usual cool head after that embarrassing first half. But he hasn't become a bad manager overnight, he's become a manager with increasing pressure under a lot of extenuating circumstances. I've still got faith in him, and this bunch of players, to get back into their groove, and finish the season well. And then, title or not, we will have to freshen the squad. I think zab and probably yaya have peaked, overplayed themselves into slow decline for a start.

What is true is that, extenuating circumstances or not, the season could be over in a fortnight. The pressure is on and the windows of opportunity closing. The good news is that bizarrely, the next two games could be right up our street. Tough challenges in big atmospheres, rather than parked buses in front of a flat crowd.

 

[mosssideblue]

Some astute observations in this comment. It's certainly an interesting philosophical approach if that is the way he approaches a game and develops a game plan.

In this age of modern football analysis, where all sorts of stats are available at the push of a button, I would be astonished if Pellegrini didn't obtain detailed data of the opposition, study the tapes of their games in collaboration with his managerial team, and then pick the team accordingly. I recall a few months ago the EDS squad sitting down in front of banks of computers and Paddy running through data on their performances, both collectively and individually. By studying this sort of data players at all levels can develop insights into their own performances as well as that of the team.

If the holistic approach means that we adopt a particular style irrespective of who we play, then that would clearly be madness. In defence of Pellers there have been quite a few modifications to the 442 which, to be fair, carried us largely to the title last season.

However the problem now is that other teams HAVE studied our style and worked out an approach that will work against us. This has been clearly evident against the lower placed teams. Rather than say 'why is it that Burnley/Hull/Middlesborough' play 'like Real Madrid' against us, the real question is have they worked out tactics to defuse us, and if so what have we then done to adapt our style accordingly?

Because other teams now have more confidence as they have developed a similar game plan, the fear factor of coming to the Etihad expecting to lose has gone. Teams are now believing that they can get a result, and guess what, they are.

Therefore Pellegrini has to change our approach. That's why he is being paid top dollar. I hope between now and the end of the season we do see evidence of this. I think the return of Yaya and the arrival of Bony will go a long way to returning us to some semblance of top form.

Nevertheless in my view is the responsibility of both Txiki and Pellegrini to figure out a way to counter the standard opposition approach against us. We need to be more flexible, more adaptable, and more responsive to the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition team. This means not taking, for example, the approach in the Hull game of playing two defensive midfielders, and playing Ed up front without anyone to cross the ball to him.

I sincerely hope Pellegrini has learnt a very big lesson from that game. I am praying that he picks a team to play Stoke which reflects the strengths of the opposition (for example playing Mangala because of his strength in the air).

We still have the key players who won us the title. The ability is there. The pressure is now firmly on Pellegrini to somehow get them back into form.

^^ this has been bothering me for a long time . I remember when Bob was here one of our coaching staff with ipad giving Zaba all sorts of info/data right inside the tunnel. Now fast forward to the first day of Pelle's tour inside the analytic roomful of computers and his expression was "WTF"? Maybe he wasn't accustomed during his spell in Malaga but R.Madrid is one of he biggest club is the world.
I don't think he gives a shit about it anyways . His philosophy is "big team don't change formation/tactics home or away " . That school of though is full of ego and arrogance .He is old school and this day and age we need cutting age tech to compete with rest of the bunch.
Our next manager should be around 35 years to 45 years old with open mind who can adapt to modern football .

Agreed we need a younger manager next up.

The sides in the premiership with 60 plus managers won't win many titles anymore unless Chelsea fall under a bus and we do it this year.

Does anybody see Arsenal or Manure winniing a title with their current managers?

You really come out with some drivel.

Oh, we get it, you dont like pellers, no need to keep banging this drum

 

[Didsbury Dave]

ExeterBlue - I do agree that we are constantly playing against parked buses at the Etihad, but we were also faced with that problem for most of last season as well.

We have been crying out for genuine pace and trickery for 2 or 3 seasons as the amount of buses parked at the Etihad has been increasing year on year, and it will only get worse the more successful we are/unsuccessful we are at breaking them down, so either way were just going to have to get used to it.

I'm not Navas biggest fan by any stretch, but Saturday was crying out for him to start the game against a team that virtually played 5 at the back at times. Bringing Dzeko back in without any width in the team what-so-ever is just asking for trouble, as it means he has to get more involved in build up play as we try and force our way through the middle of the congested pitch.

At the moment we don't have the answer in our squad to the questions we are being asked by the likes of Hull when they come to the Etihad. It is just going to take patience and a bit of luck and then hopefully we can get some confidence back, as right now I wouldn't back us to beat anybody regardless of who is available, confidence is key and at the moment we look drastically short of it.

Navas had a good game against Chelsea but for the last two months at home against inferior opposition he's been shockingly wasteful from the wide areas. We've missed Nasri terribly and that means Navas stands down.

However, as the game went in it was obvious Nasri was not fit and back to his absolute safe-passing, risk-averse worst. He should have been swapped for navas at half time. That was when the manager started to lose it for me. And then the introduction of jovetic wide with Milner off the striker was bizarre. And so was the withdrawal of silva. It doesn't matter if he's having a poor game, he's the most likely to create a goal against a parked bus.

 

[BillyShears]

Oh, we get it, you dont like pellers, no need to keep banging this drum

It's not a case of "don't like" but more a case of we've reached a point in our evolution where a large segment of our support, like it or not, would prefer the club to be run like Roman runs Chelsea in terms of managers literally being fired as soon as they finish a season without a big trophy. Even he made an exception for Mourinho last season it has to be said. But yeah, that's the general consensus, win something big or fuck off.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this. I guess it comes from a need now we have money and resources, to be seen to be the best every season. You can see it in the OTT reactions to our current predicament. The way Pellegrini is characterised as being so wildly incompetent that he simply picks 11 players each week with zero thought for the opposition and zero respect for the performance analysis team, his own scouts, whatever reports he receives on each team he's about to face.

I'd almost prefer it if one or two simply had the balls to say "if we don't win a big trophy sack the manager, that should be our rule". Its far more credible than some of the nonsense arguments I keep reading about why Pellegrini is a bad manager.