Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[Shaelumstash]

Post of the thread and by some distance.

Thanks a lot mate. Most of the other mods have accused me of being a WUM for saying similar things, good to know at least one mod has got his head screwed on :-)

Roll on Wednesday, let's go and stuff them and show them why we're champions.

Your inability to ever go 5 minutes without having a whine about how badly you've been treated, is such that I'm inclined to believe that you are in fact a Scouser.

The bigger point with regard the footballing thing, is that our difficulties go way beyond Pellegrini not legislating for the opposition's strengths (if indeed that's true at all, when only last week for example he selected Sagna, a stay at home jockeyer, rather than fans favourite Zabaleta, a marauding diver inner, specifically to negate the threat of Hazard).
The club, under the overall stewardship of Txixi and Ferian, is in the process of installing a particular footballing philosophy - largely modelled, rightly or wrongly (and personally I think it's a mistake), on tika taka - throughout the entire club, from the U10's right the way through to the first team, and the problem that both the club and the manager has, is that the squad has been broadly assembled to play that way. Aggressive front foot defenders, full backs providing the width, intricate triangular passing moves to bring those full backs into play etc etc.

Whilst we have been horrendously unlucky with injuries, the squad is (and has been for 2 or 3 years) lacking when it comes to the fundamental attributes needed to adapt our playing style. Navas is the only winger at the club and the only attacking player with any real pace, and even he is horribly one dimensional; a push and chase merchant who lacks any kind of trickery to wrong foot opponents, which he why he so frequently cuts inside or turns and lays the ball backwards. The lack of pace and/or anyone who can dribble is a real handicap for us then in terms of our ability to counterattack, and indeed to drag parked buses out of position. And with regards the latter tactic, which the rags under Taggart used to circumvent by practising endless evil crossing drills at Carrington, we have no-one, bar Kolarov, whose presence weakens the team overall anyway, that can put in anything other than floaty inaccurate crap from the flanks; manna from heaven for the clod hopper centre halves at Burnley, Hull and Stoke.

Whilst Pellegrini's team selection on Saturday was inexcusable in both the inclusion of Dzeko and the expectation that Fernando, an out and out spoiler, should be considered capable of acting as a de facto attacking conduit, the team that played most of the 2nd half was the one that most of us would probably have picked from the off (given who was available), and yet whilst it looked more mobile and lively overall, it yielded barely any more goal scoring chances than the woefully unbalanced set of plodders did in the first half.

People keep seeming surprised that we can go to places like Chelsea and do well, and yet come unstuck against the lesser teams. The simple reason is that those lesser teams make it fantastically difficult for us, to the point that anyone and everyone below about 5th place parks a fleet of buses whenever they place, and indeed the teams currently lying 1st, 3rd and 6th have all come to the Etihad this season and done it to us as well. We are uniquely ill equipped to circumvent this tactic for the reasons described, and whilst Pellegrini should rightly take criticism for some truly inexplicable team selections this season, I genuinely don't think that any other manager out there would fare significantly better with the players we currently have at our disposal. Whether that's Pellegrini's fault, or that of those above him doing the buying and imposing the philosophy, is harder to call IMO

Great post, except the first paragraph. I was joking about "the way I've been treated" as you put it. I even used the universally accepted Bluemoon symbol of :-) to illustrate this, so on that point I think you need to have a bit more grace.

The two issues I have been accused of being a wum are Pellegrini's limitations, and Fernando's limitations. I made the points that I don't think Pellegrini is adaptable, and that I don't think Fernando can play in a 442. I made both of these points very early and got absolutely hounded. Read both threads on these two now and it's the generally accepted view on both. I'm not asking for recognition, I'm not playing the "I told you so" card, I'm just saying those who accused me of wumming were clearly wrong to do so.

Anyway, let's not dwell on that. The wider footballing point you made I largely agree with. Is this inflexible approach coming from Pellegrini, Txiki, or both? I think it's probably both.

I'll repeat the point I made 12 months ago. Once we are an established, dominant force, with a squad of players who are all of a similar standard, who can rotate easily with no detrimental affect on the team, youth players schooled in that way of playing, we can afford to stick to the same "philosophy" no matter what. We're not there yet though, so for me we need to be adaptable along the way and concentrate on winning games. For me the most glaring example of this is starting Fernando in a 442. How many fucking games is it going to take the manager to realise that it shouldn't even be considered as an option? Hooking him at half time was an encouraging move, at least he recognised it was a disaster. I just hope for Wednesday he can figure out a way to get the team playing to it's potential again.

 

[BillyShears]

And so was the withdrawal of silva. It doesn't matter if he's having a poor game, he's the most likely to create a goal against a parked bus.

Silva's been our worst attacking player for some matches now. His influence less and less visible. He has cut an isolated and frustrated figure and hasn't even had his usual work rate. Personally I think that as much as I hear the "he's a match winner" arguments, I fully understood why had to be taken off. Even if it was just a shot across his bows in terms of saying "you need to produce and you haven't for too long now".

 

[Didsbury Dave]

And so was the withdrawal of silva. It doesn't matter if he's having a poor game, he's the most likely to create a goal against a parked bus.

Silva's been our worst attacking player for some matches now. His influence less and less visible. He has cut an isolated and frustrated figure and hasn't even had his usual work rate. Personally I think that as much as I hear the "he's a match winner" arguments, I fully understood why had to be taken off. Even if it was just a shot across his bows in terms of saying "you need to produce and you haven't for too long now".

Not what I would have done, MA. He still looked our best player first half for me, but was coping with little movement around him and safe, negative passing from the others. I'm ploughing a lonely furrow on this one, and you and I have disagreed many times, but Nasri was doing nothing but play it back to the holding players and centre halfs for me. An off form Silva still has a lot more to offer than that in my opinion.

I'm Silva's biggest fan of course but he's been the lone playmaker for a month or two now, and it's made it easy for the opposition to shut him and therefore us out. That's affected his form. Usually you man mark silva and yaya and Nasri punch a hole in your defence. That's been gone, with a predictable Navas poking cross after cross at the front man. That's why I'm not buying this 'navas should have started' stuff. I wouldn't have picked him.

 

[rapidCT]

It s a time for everything. A time to criticise the team and staff and a time, when they are really down, to go behind them. As mush errors as I can find in our style of playing, tactics, team selection and player rolls, I cannot criticise MP right now. The morale is really down now. We should go behind them and judge in the end of the season. Hopefully we will not have to worry about CL spot.

 

[supercity88]

And so was the withdrawal of silva. It doesn't matter if he's having a poor game, he's the most likely to create a goal against a parked bus.

Silva's been our worst attacking player for some matches now. His influence less and less visible. He has cut an isolated and frustrated figure and hasn't even had his usual work rate. Personally I think that as much as I hear the "he's a match winner" arguments, I fully understood why had to be taken off. Even if it was just a shot across his bows in terms of saying "you need to produce and you haven't for too long now".

Totally agree with you there - Silva was fantastic during the christmas/new year games and got us the vital points without strikers.

He has been awful since that run ended and doesn't look anywhere near the level we expect. At Chelsea him and Kompany were the two worse players for us. Kompany was lacking composure, trying to over complicate passes and generally looking a liability. But that should change as he gets games under his belt. Silva was misplacing passes and wasn't exerting his usual level of intricate passing and movement. He scored though so credit to him. Again he looked off his game on Saturday and needs to step up. I strongly believe the return of Yaya and Bony will inject new life into the team. First of all we have to go and beat Stoke and it will require a very professional performance. We've looked better away from home and I think we'll finally go and win there.

 

[Chippy_boy]

And so was the withdrawal of silva. It doesn't matter if he's having a poor game, he's the most likely to create a goal against a parked bus.

Silva's been our worst attacking player for some matches now. His influence less and less visible. He has cut an isolated and frustrated figure and hasn't even had his usual work rate. Personally I think that as much as I hear the "he's a match winner" arguments, I fully understood why had to be taken off. Even if it was just a shot across his bows in terms of saying "you need to produce and you haven't for too long now".

Totally agree with you there - Silva was fantastic during the christmas/new year games and got us the vital points without strikers.

He has been awful since that run ended and doesn't look anywhere near the level we expect. At Chelsea him and Kompany were the two worse players for us. Kompany was lacking composure, trying to over complicate passes and generally looking a liability. But that should change as he gets games under his belt. Silva was misplacing passes and wasn't exerting his usual level of intricate passing and movement. He scored though so credit to him. Again he looked off his game on Saturday and needs to step up. I strongly believe the return of Yaya and Bony will inject new life into the team. First of all we have to go and beat Stoke and it will require a very professional performance. We've looked better away from home and I think we'll finally go and win there.

Don't agree about Silva at Chelsea. With no Nasri or Yaya in the team, Chelsea only really had to pay attention to Silva in order to effectively render us pretty impotent. They did that remarkably well, never allowing him any space and consequently he didn't shine like he usually does.

When Nasri and/or Yaya are in the same side, it's an entirely different story since the opposition can't focus all their attention on all three of them and invariably that allows Silva to drift into space, from where he can dictate the game.

 

[jimharri]

So; has he been sacked yet?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

A point I made earlier, Chippy. When you've got yaya coming at you from deep, and Nasri moving around creating overloads, and Sergio running off the centre half's shoulder, you can't mark silva out of the game. That's been the problem. It will pass soon as everyone gets fitter. Silva isn't the problem. His form is a symptom of our other problems.

 

[BillyShears]

And so was the withdrawal of silva. It doesn't matter if he's having a poor game, he's the most likely to create a goal against a parked bus.

Silva's been our worst attacking player for some matches now. His influence less and less visible. He has cut an isolated and frustrated figure and hasn't even had his usual work rate. Personally I think that as much as I hear the "he's a match winner" arguments, I fully understood why had to be taken off. Even if it was just a shot across his bows in terms of saying "you need to produce and you haven't for too long now".

Not what I would have done, MA. He still looked our best player first half for me, but was coping with little movement around him and safe, negative passing from the others. I'm ploughing a lonely furrow on this one, and you and I have disagreed many times, but Nasri was doing nothing but play it back to the holding players and centre halfs for me. An off form Silva still has a lot more to offer than that in my opinion.

I'm Silva's biggest fan of course but he's been the lone playmaker for a month or two now, and it's made it easy for the opposition to shut him and therefore us out. That's affected his form. Usually you man mark silva and yaya and Nasri punch a hole in your defence. That's been gone, with a predictable Navas poking cross after cross at the front man. That's why I'm not buying this 'navas should have started' stuff. I wouldn't have picked him.

The only argument IMO which can be made in defence of the team Pellegrini picked is that normally that's as close to our strongest team as possible. The only player missing was Toure. On top of that, four of the players need minutes because they're just not match fit.

But even then with the Stoke game coming up mid week you divide it up so Nasri/Silva/Navas/Kun play at the weekend, and Milner, Silva, Kun, Dzeko play mid week. Nasri and Dzeko both get full games, and you have the option of giving them 45 from the bench if you need them in the games they don't start.

On top of that he leaves Mangala on the bench even after how poor both Vinny and Demichelis have been in recent weeks. It was a fuck of a team selection all over the pitch. Even bringing Zaba back. Sagna's performance at Stamford Bridge for me pretty much earned him the right to start again on Saturday. Zaba's not had the greatest of starts to the season and you could see in an attacking sense that Navas and Sagna had a better understanding of each others' games last weekend than they have had previously.

It's gone now but the players who played in the first half need to look at themselves but the manager does too. You simply can't put in such an all round turgid showing so soon after the Chelsea performance.

 

[cookster]

Silva's been our worst attacking player for some matches now. His influence less and less visible. He has cut an isolated and frustrated figure and hasn't even had his usual work rate. Personally I think that as much as I hear the "he's a match winner" arguments, I fully understood why had to be taken off. Even if it was just a shot across his bows in terms of saying "you need to produce and you haven't for too long now".

Not what I would have done, MA. He still looked our best player first half for me, but was coping with little movement around him and safe, negative passing from the others. I'm ploughing a lonely furrow on this one, and you and I have disagreed many times, but Nasri was doing nothing but play it back to the holding players and centre halfs for me. An off form Silva still has a lot more to offer than that in my opinion.

I'm Silva's biggest fan of course but he's been the lone playmaker for a month or two now, and it's made it easy for the opposition to shut him and therefore us out. That's affected his form. Usually you man mark silva and yaya and Nasri punch a hole in your defence. That's been gone, with a predictable Navas poking cross after cross at the front man. That's why I'm not buying this 'navas should have started' stuff. I wouldn't have picked him.

The only argument IMO which can be made in defence of the team Pellegrini picked is that normally that's as close to our strongest team as possible. The only player missing was Toure. On top of that, four of the players need minutes because they're just not match fit.

But even then with the Stoke game coming up mid week you divide it up so Nasri/Silva/Navas/Kun play at the weekend, and Milner, Silva, Kun, Dzeko play mid week. Nasri and Dzeko both get full games, and you have the option of giving them 45 from the bench if you need them in the games they don't start.

On top of that he leaves Mangala on the bench even after how poor both Vinny and Demichelis have been in recent weeks. It was a fuck of a team selection all over the pitch. Even bringing Zaba back. Sagna's performance at Stamford Bridge for me pretty much earned him the right to start again on Saturday. Zaba's not had the greatest of starts to the season and you could see in an attacking sense that Navas and Sagna had a better understanding of each others' games last weekend than they have had previously.

It's gone now but the players who played in the first half need to look at themselves but the manager does too. You simply can't put in such an all round turgid showing so soon after the Chelsea performance.

Reverting to type is his weakness. That front 4 might be tried and tested but Nasri and Dzeko were both returning from long term injuries, so shouldn't have started.

Same with the Vinny and MDM, tried and tested but our best partnership this season has been MDM and Mangala. I could go on, Zab out of form, Sagna best player against Chelsea.

The tinker man just rotates for fun, but it aint funny anymore.