Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[kenzie115]

I am not sure if the guy who writes the excellent View from a Blue blog is on here but he wrote an excellent piece on Pellegrini and the Barca game.

With the players we have i can see why he went 4-4-2 but we are just not good enough to go toe to toe with the top sides in Europe yet, bloody hell we just about scraped through the group!
We have to make ourselves hard to beat and hope our quality players produce that bit of magic to sneak a win. Considering Pellegrini was brought in for his European experience he keeps on making the same mistakes over and over.

Indeed

our last manager was seemingly sacked for his poor results and lack of progress in europe

no doubt this one will be too

Was he not sacked because he didn't say hello to the tea lady?

 

[BobKowalski]

Haha. You really are a fucking drama queen. Amazing that the fucking idiot has managed to still keep us in the tie hey?

I am always intrigued by how we divide responsibility. The 'fucking idiot' managed to keep us in the tie but is not responsible for us being almost out of the tie in the first place? Do we blame the system or application of the system or the preparation for applying the system? And are we now saying that losing 2-1 at home to Barca with the away leg to come is a positive result? It isn't its just a damn sight better than 3-1. Small mercies and all that.

Before the game I was seduced by the nominal 442. Death or glory. Fuck it lets do it. But if you are going for death or glory then every player has to be 100% up for it and close the spaces down like mad dogs. We didn't. The first goal punctured our fragile self belief and we spent 30 minutes allowing them the freedom of the park. So does Pellers recognise that our mentality and self belief in the CL is a fragile thing at best and deploy a system and personnel that allow us to grow into the game and hopefully progress or go for broke, get a goal and hopefully progress?

Personally I think there is no right or wrong answer. Both approaches are legitimate and the only thing that dictates the narrative is the final result. It works Pellers is a genius. It didn't so he is a clueless numpty. The interesting question for me is did the players buy into what Pellers was selling and whether Pellers has the personality to make them believe it? Is there an argument for a Simeone character who may, at least short term, instil the belief that allows us to go toe to toe and get a result against Barca and from that the confidence and self belief is grown and takes root at the club rather as it has done when it comes to the PL.

Interesting times.

Even when the 2 in the centre are Milner and Fernando? Maybe I might have thought 'fuck it let's do it' if fernandinho was in there but only a fucking idiot would put Milner and Fernando in there. After the initial shock at the appalling set up for the game I thought to myself that Pellegrini must have something clever up his sleeve or a decent game plan but half an hour into the absolute horror show when we were being completely humiliated in one of the biggest games in our recent history (and a message to the soft twats before you start - don't give me the 'chimps league', 'bent platini' bullshit and pretend it's not a big game) I thought to myself 'oh no, he's just a fucking idiot'

It was the triumph of hope over experience. Sometimes I find it better to park any negativity at the door and just enjoy the ride.

That said I was somewhat deflated by the end of the game.

 

[John.des]

The big problem for Pellegrini that this is his third time with a very strong squad and cant go further than the last 16 of CL.
Biggest fail was obviously his awful loss to Lyon with Real Madrid. Last year the 4-1 loss to Barca wasnt much better but at least we had a very strong opponent. Well yeah Barca was in shit form around that time, finished only 3rd in league their manager had to leave and was easily ripped apart just the very next round by Atletico. Against us they made 4-1 in two games...

Then comes this season with a very awful CL group stage where we just get trough mostly because we struggle against sides like Roma and CSKA. Their squads comes nowhere near close to ours but rely on luck and other things to get somehow trough which we did at least.

Then its Barca again, a probably betterBarca than last year based on their recent form, and they still in with a good chance in their league two, also Suarez made their attack stronger.
(I think Suarez more likely to decide a match than Sanchez that Barca sold espeically when it comes to a very big game.)

We go 442, with the wrong personnel, 442 is not a horrible thing to play if you do it with right personnel, right work rate, right mentality.
I dont think we had the right mentality even tho we talked the talk before the game how we dont fear them, we will attack them, we will show them they cant mess ith us again, we do this and that.
Than we concede early, start panich, forget to press, forget to tackle, forget to mark players. We ar nearly comepletely out of the tie and 3-0 down in 45 minutes and then finally we start to play well for 20 minutes. Than lack of discipline gets us down to 10 men, and its a fight to avoid being 1-3 or 1-4. Zabaleta tries his best to make it 1-3, Hart saves us...

We got worse in CL from last season based on all of this and the CL group stage.

I add the two other cup exits and the way we exited. Newcastle reserve and Boro winning at Etihad. We fucking even panicked when Boro scored. Why wouldnt we panick then when Fc Barcelona scores.
Then as hardly surprising the big Newcastle reserve instantly beaten out of competition after they beat us same with Boro.

Based on the simple fact barca is very strong but nowhere near as strong as they were under Guardiola few years ago it wouldnt surprise me to see them really struggle to get into semis unless they get Porto maybe.

Before someone tells me that Pellegrini had great CL results with Villarreal and Malaga, yeah. Thats part the reason why he got hired maybe at Real and City too.
But the results that gonne get fired him are the ones he makes at Real and City.

And I have a lot bigger problem with how he went out vs Lyon at Real or how we went out last time against Barca or the way we will more than likely go out this season.

A team like us can lose to Barca its not surprise. But go out like PSG did 2 years ago. Barca-PSG 1-1, PSG-Barca 2-2. Barca goes trough on away goals.
PSG did their best.

I wouldnt say a bad word (maybe a few only) if we just went out vs Barca like that. They are a better side.

Now with 1-2 result we can go to them hope not to concede and score at least two or more. Their only loss at home this season was the Malaga one 0-1.
Other problem we clearly wont be able to play our usual PL style possession based football.
But who cares, Pelle will still send out similar formmation and personnel like we would actually dominate the game.

Seriously one of our biggest disadvantage in CL that what we do in PL and how we do it is simply not possible for us to transform that into CL games. Opponents here are clever. We rarely are. Roma away was a performance would say was clever. Where you could sense some gameplan, from start to finish.

 

[Reddyex]

Made this account because as longtime foreign supporter I had enough off Pellegrini. He made the same mistake 2 years on a row vs Barca now. He didn't realize we should play more defensive, as Mourinho does vs teams with faster passing & better technical abilities. At least Mou understands this is the way to beat them on organization, defence and the counter.

Problem sits deeper though. Ever since Pellegrini toke over I've seen a great defensive unit lose their confidence. The problem with Kompany & Zabs are not their skillset, its their confidence. It's rash challenges and running out of position because they lack confidence in the midfield, the lack of protection and organization. Put Kompany in the Chelsea team and soon everyone will consider him the best CB in the world again. When you look at the latest CL wins Chelsea/United it was based on a strong defensive unit and organization. It's the way to go for EPL teams.

Pellegrini has to go.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

I am always intrigued by how we divide responsibility. The 'fucking idiot' managed to keep us in the tie but is not responsible for us being almost out of the tie in the first place? Do we blame the system or application of the system or the preparation for applying the system? And are we now saying that losing 2-1 at home to Barca with the away leg to come is a positive result? It isn't its just a damn sight better than 3-1. Small mercies and all that.

Before the game I was seduced by the nominal 442. Death or glory. Fuck it lets do it. But if you are going for death or glory then every player has to be 100% up for it and close the spaces down like mad dogs. We didn't. The first goal punctured our fragile self belief and we spent 30 minutes allowing them the freedom of the park. So does Pellers recognise that our mentality and self belief in the CL is a fragile thing at best and deploy a system and personnel that allow us to grow into the game and hopefully progress or go for broke, get a goal and hopefully progress?

Personally I think there is no right or wrong answer. Both approaches are legitimate and the only thing that dictates the narrative is the final result. It works Pellers is a genius. It didn't so he is a clueless numpty. The interesting question for me is did the players buy into what Pellers was selling and whether Pellers has the personality to make them believe it? Is there an argument for a Simeone character who may, at least short term, instil the belief that allows us to go toe to toe and get a result against Barca and from that the confidence and self belief is grown and takes root at the club rather as it has done when it comes to the PL.

Interesting times.

Even when the 2 in the centre are Milner and Fernando? Maybe I might have thought 'fuck it let's do it' if fernandinho was in there but only a fucking idiot would put Milner and Fernando in there. After the initial shock at the appalling set up for the game I thought to myself that Pellegrini must have something clever up his sleeve or a decent game plan but half an hour into the absolute horror show when we were being completely humiliated in one of the biggest games in our recent history (and a message to the soft twats before you start - don't give me the 'chimps league', 'bent platini' bullshit and pretend it's not a big game) I thought to myself 'oh no, he's just a fucking idiot'

It was the triumph of hope over experience. Sometimes I find it better to park any negativity at the door and just enjoy the ride.

That said I was somewhat deflated by the end of the game.

I was absolutely buzzing at the end of the game after the horror show I'd witnessed that first half. I would have snapped anyones hand off for 4 nil loss half an hour into it the way that game was going. Thanks to luck and Barca slacking off we got away with it

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Stoke at home - lost 1-0
West Ham away - lost 2-1
CSKA away - drew 2-2
CSKA home - lost 2-1
Burnley home - drew 2-2
Middlesborough home - lost 2-0
Hull home - drew 1-1

etc etc etc

Still including Burnley are we, despite our not playing 4-4-2 that day due to there being no fit forwards at the club? Whatever, your assertion was that Fernando was 'incapable' of playing in a 4-4-2. Roma clearly shows that given the right supporting cast, he is perfectly capable of playing in a 4-4-2.

Interesting that you include Nasri playing behind Dzeko as a front 2, but you claim any game that includes Jovetic doesn't count as 4-4-2 because he's not an out and out striker.

The average position of a player on the pitch does not dictate the way he plays the game. Playing Nasri behind Dzeko results in a much different approach to the game than playing Aguero with Dzeko. If you can't understand that then there's really no hope.

4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-5-1. None of it really matters, what matters is how the 11 players are approach the game. If Nasri plays with Dzeko up front, he drops into midfield and gets involved in build up play. If Aguero plays, he looks to get in behind and so the midfield two are left with much more responsibility for maintaining possession and finding more difficult forward passes.

Of course I understand that Nasri and Aguero might approach the same role differently you lemon, and thank you for not insulting my intelligence. Ordinarily I might have not made the Nasri/Jovetic distinction, and loosely classified any such team selections involving either of them in an advanced role as 4-4-1-1, but in the case of the game in Rome I remembered Nasri playing a very similar role to Silva in Munich last year, where Spanish Dave was pushed up right alongside Dzeko. A trip to the UEFA website pretty much confirmed that fact, and whilst Nasri might have dropped back further on occasion than someone like Aguero, who likes to play on the front foot, might have done, overall the pattern is clear - he played a very advanced role, and 4-4-2 was the best description for the formation IMO.
All of that though is a sideshow to the main debate, which was whether Fernando is capable of playing in a 4-4-2, the answer to which is still 'yes', if you give him the right supporting cast and use him against the right kind of opponent. Quite plainly that didn't happen against Barcelona any more than it did at home to Hull, but that does not make the man 'incapable'

 

[Balti]

I am not sure if the guy who writes the excellent View from a Blue blog is on here but he wrote an excellent piece on Pellegrini and the Barca game.

With the players we have i can see why he went 4-4-2 but we are just not good enough to go toe to toe with the top sides in Europe yet, bloody hell we just about scraped through the group!
We have to make ourselves hard to beat and hope our quality players produce that bit of magic to sneak a win. Considering Pellegrini was brought in for his European experience he keeps on making the same mistakes over and over.

Indeed

our last manager was seemingly sacked for his poor results and lack of progress in europe

no doubt this one will be too

Was he not sacked because he didn't say hello to the tea lady?

true.....Doris is the ultimate power broker.....

 

[schfc6]

Five in midfield lost twice to Barcelona twice last season, lost at Bayern, was losing to 10 men Bayern. Lost to Arsenal. That's just off the top my head. I'm glad Pellegrini tried something different. A plan that the second half clearly showed was right.

Folk can suggest the 451, but it hasn't worked either.

Calling it a 442 would highlight how little someone knows about the game. David Silva and Samir Basri are hardly Wilcox and Ripley.

4231 or 433 or 451 clearly wasn't working with its obvious failings. Barca home and away, Arsenal this season, Bayern home and away this season. Only at 442 did we look like scoring again vs Bayern at home.

It's getting really boring from the 'told you so brigade', the same posters weirdly absent when their suggested tactics fail miserably as they frequently have.

Where were those 442 critics after we lost to Arsenal. Our players our squad isn't that great, we are only great playing to our strengths.

As I've said before, we could have played every central midfielder we had vs Barca, we'd have still even run off the park, see us vs Bayern's ten men.

I credit Pellehrini for trying something different, a plan that clearly had merit, unless we ignore the second half?

 

[cleavers]

I credit Pellehrini for trying something different, a plan that clearly had merit, unless we ignore the second half?

Some are ignoring it as "Barca had already won, so they slacked off", because it suits their argument.

The problem on Tuesday night was that the players selected, didn't do their jobs in the first half, like they did in the second half, after presumably being given a rocket at half time. They came out and did what they should have done from minute 1, it forced Barcelona back, it was evident to those in the ground from the first seconds of the half that we had changed completely what we had been doing before half time.

We were indeed lucky that we hadn't gone in 0-5 at h/t, as we probably deserved to, so it gave us a chance, Barca were undoubtedly good in that first 45 minutes, but our players have no excuses for not turning up, which is pretty well what happened, particularly after their rather fortunate first goal.

 

[Summerbuzz]

I credit Pellehrini for trying something different, a plan that clearly had merit, unless we ignore the second half?

Some are ignoring it as "Barca had already won, so they slacked off", because it suits their argument.

The problem on Tuesday night was that the players selected, didn't do their jobs in the first half, like they did in the second half, after presumably being given a rocket at half time.

You see, to me, that's been the problem with us in the CL under both managers - poor starts, poor attitude, first halves devoid of cohesive play and organised, collective effort. When I see most teams turn out in the CL, i can usually (and quite clearly) see there is an extra level of discipline and a collective performance level. That is what the MCFC manager needs to instill, not this or that tactic or formation.