cleavers said:I'd say yes it did, they thought they were comfortable at 1-0 against 10 men, and as I said it was 5 minutes after the subs before it happened a 5 minutes were we had been all over them. Do you not think our recent form had something to do with the so called panic (though to be honest I didn't think it was that bad at the game).
tolmie's hairdoo said:moomba said:Mister Appointment said:Just out of curiosity - does anyone remember any time in our recent history where a substitution was as contentious as the ones on derby day?
I really can't. Especially not after we'd won a match. Amazes me in a way people are still quite so bothered by it so many days later.
De Jong on for a forward used to always get a lot of comment, until people realised it was usually an attacking move. Remember Lescott playing upfront, but can't remember if it was a sub or not.
The thing that stood out for me with this one is the obvious and instantaneous difference in the game immediately before and after the subs. MP has had his good days and bad days with subs but I can't think of a time where the game was turned on it's head like Sunday.
Also maybe because a draw would have left us 8 points behind in the league, hanging on the chimps league and out of the league cup. The consequences of not winning that game were pretty severe.
It's a wider issue for me. In recent weeks, we have been looking for explanations as to why we have lost certain games or not performed for the full ninety minutes?
Manuel calls the shots in game time and his Milner decision on Sunday made me question his tactical acumen for the first time since Bayern Munich were allowed trampling rights at our place last season.
He can achieve even more great things at this club, no doubt, but even my amateur observations, albeit, cultivated as a member of Joe Public simply watching the game for 30 years, can't assume the manager is always in complete control of the situation.
grim up north said:tolmie's hairdoo said:moomba said:De Jong on for a forward used to always get a lot of comment, until people realised it was usually an attacking move. Remember Lescott playing upfront, but can't remember if it was a sub or not.
The thing that stood out for me with this one is the obvious and instantaneous difference in the game immediately before and after the subs. MP has had his good days and bad days with subs but I can't think of a time where the game was turned on it's head like Sunday.
Also maybe because a draw would have left us 8 points behind in the league, hanging on the chimps league and out of the league cup. The consequences of not winning that game were pretty severe.
It's a wider issue for me. In recent weeks, we have been looking for explanations as to why we have lost certain games or not performed for the full ninety minutes?
Manuel calls the shots in game time and his Milner decision on Sunday made me question his tactical acumen for the first time since Bayern Munich were allowed trampling rights at our place last season.
He can achieve even more great things at this club, no doubt, but even my amateur observations, albeit, cultivated as a member of Joe Public simply watching the game for 30 years, can't assume the manager is always in complete control of the situation.
It's all very well surmising but you really haven't got the first idea why Milner was substituted every body is guessing he could have had a knock, completely nackered or tactical you cannot diss any thing if you don't know the facts
cleavers said:I watched the game again last night too, after the double sub, we spent the first 5 minutes climbing all over united, and had 2 very good chances, before Rooney's run through the centre (not down our left), where nobody put in a proper challenge. It was this that caused the nervous last 15 minutes for me, we suddenly realised the game wasn't over, and started defending desperately rather than cleverly, as we had until then.
Dzeko, whilst he does defend well at corners, was brought on to defend from the front by holding the ball up, and bringing others into it, its a pity he wasn't interested in doing that, I think he managed it once.
Unfortunately we resorted to panic defending, brought on I guess by our recent poor form, rather than using our brains and the space on the pitch to run time down, instead giving the ball back to united far too easily, when we should have keeping possession.
Nasri needs game time so it should have been him on for Jovetic, who didn't have the best of games. Like for like but Nasri is much better at retaining the ball. If we needed extra legs in midfield then I'd have replaced Navas with Fernandinho.Paul_Powers_Tash said:cleavers said:I watched the game again last night too, after the double sub, we spent the first 5 minutes climbing all over united, and had 2 very good chances, before Rooney's run through the centre (not down our left), where nobody put in a proper challenge. It was this that caused the nervous last 15 minutes for me, we suddenly realised the game wasn't over, and started defending desperately rather than cleverly, as we had until then.
Dzeko, whilst he does defend well at corners, was brought on to defend from the front by holding the ball up, and bringing others into it, its a pity he wasn't interested in doing that, I think he managed it once.
Unfortunately we resorted to panic defending, brought on I guess by our recent poor form, rather than using our brains and the space on the pitch to run time down, instead giving the ball back to united far too easily, when we should have keeping possession.
As I have said previously, there was only one possible substitution to make; Fernandinho for Jovetic. This would have given us additional 'legs' in midfield to stop the Rooney threat but also by pushing Yaya further forward I belive it would have improved our attacking capabilities. Two birds with one stone so to speak. Nasri or Dzeko should have never entered into the managers thoughts at that stage of the game. I sincerely hope Pellegrini learns from Sunday.
In your head without knowing any other circumstances.Paul_Powers_Tash said:As I have said previously, there was only one possible substitution to make; Fernandinho for Jovetic.
Why would we have wanted to stop the fat **** giving us the ball?Paul_Powers_Tash said:cleavers said:I watched the game again last night too, after the double sub, we spent the first 5 minutes climbing all over united, and had 2 very good chances, before Rooney's run through the centre (not down our left), where nobody put in a proper challenge. It was this that caused the nervous last 15 minutes for me, we suddenly realised the game wasn't over, and started defending desperately rather than cleverly, as we had until then.
Dzeko, whilst he does defend well at corners, was brought on to defend from the front by holding the ball up, and bringing others into it, its a pity he wasn't interested in doing that, I think he managed it once.
Unfortunately we resorted to panic defending, brought on I guess by our recent poor form, rather than using our brains and the space on the pitch to run time down, instead giving the ball back to united far too easily, when we should have keeping possession.
As I have said previously, there was only one possible substitution to make; Fernandinho for Jovetic. This would have given us additional 'legs' in midfield to stop the Rooney threat but also by pushing Yaya further forward I belive it would have improved our attacking capabilities. Two birds with one stone so to speak. Nasri or Dzeko should have never entered into the managers thoughts at that stage of the game. I sincerely hope Pellegrini learns from Sunday.