Manuel Pellegrini

[BobKowalski]

I still think the biggest problem regarding the UCL is in the players' heads...

Yep and I think a lot of us have come to that conclusion. I had some sympathy for Pellers with his team choice. It was a weakened Roma and if we had started with the right tempo, attitude and application then we would have done better. Give us a nice 1 goal start and we should have been golden. Unfortunately the worms that seem to eat away in our collective heads meant tempo, attitude and application were largely absent which then highlights the weakness of his team choice. We needed more bodies in midfield and a better balance to compensate for this lack of tempo etc.

Perhaps we need a more conservative approach from the start that allows us to play our way into the game and asses the strength of the opposition. Maybe spending 45 mins been given the run around just feeds the doubts and insecurities meaning we never get control of the game even when we do change things.

Its a conundrum but clearly what we do now isn't working and simply repeating things in the hope it finally works isn't much of an answer.

If we win the Champs League playing 442 I'll wear a United top to work. There's not a cat in hells chance. A more pragmatic approach is required in Europe and it's so blindingly obvious as to be incredibly frustrating that the manager can't see it. Or can he? He certainly went more conservative after the debacle against Munich, so I live in hope that he'll do so again.

There is still room for variation on the way to (hopefully) winning the CL. At home to a weakened Roma a fairly standard 442 is not an outrageous call. Away to Bayern or a Real then one out and out striker with maybe Silva playing off the striker and a more robust midfield makes more sense.

But it may just be that we need to find a more containing set up or style that allows us to break quickly and, more importantly, when doing so we don't lose our shape and become vulnerable to their counter when ours breaks down. We perhaps need a more cerebral approach to the CL games irrespective of the opposition. An approach that becomes second nature in the CL games. Right now I don't think we have a 'European style or format' that works for us meaning we look clueless and lost more often than not. A domestic game and a European game (or philosophy) needs to be worked on rather than trying to play Roma as if they are Aston Villa (or whoever).

 

[meltonblue]

I actually think it's more a squad issue that manifests itself in a tactical issues in that for Pellegrinis system to fully work the best it could do with interiores and fullbacks providing the width, it needs disciplined cms to stay deep to provide the cover. The other thing it needs is the second striker to drop back a bit more without the ball topics the extra protection.

Given that, I think both Toure and Aguero must cause Pellegrini as many conundrums against the better teams as they do brilliance through their own individual qualities. Neither of them fully suit our setup to me in certain games, and we rely on them having stormer to make up for it. It works in the majority of pl games but can easily be exposed at times too.

The other thing I think we really lack is another Silva. Too much of the creation goes through him, again his individual brilliance is more than enough to see us through a lot of the time though.

We are still too reliant on certain individuals for me essentially and to make up for the deficiencies they actually cause to the system.

 

[sam-caddick]

I think it's pretty inevitable that once Pep becomes available we will go all out to get him and unless he gets the sack or resigns next summer I think Pellegrini will see out his contract at City.

Pellegrini needs to change his methods in certain moments though, I admire his philosophy but you can't play suicide formations in Europe most the time or think Yaya Toure at 31 can play in a midfield two against some of the worlds best players when their teams are playing three or even four players against him.

I don't like to start saying what if we had such a such player back because you should be able to adapt with what you have like Garcia did in having De Sanctis, De Rossi and Strootman out, but I am intrigued to see how much Fernando and Mangala improve us when they play for us in the Champions League.

 

[lasereyes]

As others have said, the problem on Tues was not the 4-4-2. It was that Toure was one of the 4. The big mistake IMO was not starting Milner and the misfortune was Fernando not being available. A midfield of Milner, Fernando, Silva and Navas would have coped quite well with Roma's counterattacks. This Yaya being undroppable is starting to play major havoc with our set-ups.

 

[lasereyes]

Hindsight aside, do you think playing Yaya in a MF 2 was the right call against a team like Roma?

Are Roma a better team than Chelsea? Do they have midfielders better capable of passing and moving the ball quickly than Chelsea?

I think the answer to your question has been answered several times over the course of the last few pages. We didn't draw because we played two in midfield, we drew because collectively the players were below par.

And the criticism of Toure's performances is becoming rank. He is slowly getting back to his best and was very good against Roma. Out passed, out ran, out everythinged Pjanic, supposedly the best player on the pitch that night.

Toure was not "very good" against Roma. He was not as awful as he has been in a couple of other games, but he was slow, offered nothing in defence, and created pretty much nothing in attack. 5-6 out of 10 performance at best -- but more detrimental to the team than that given the 4-4-2 setup MP decided to play.

 

[mastermind]

I still think the biggest problem regarding the UCL is in the players' heads...

Yep and I think a lot of us have come to that conclusion. I had some sympathy for Pellers with his team choice. It was a weakened Roma and if we had started with the right tempo, attitude and application then we would have done better. Give us a nice 1 goal start and we should have been golden. Unfortunately the worms that seem to eat away in our collective heads meant tempo, attitude and application were largely absent which then highlights the weakness of his team choice. We needed more bodies in midfield and a better balance to compensate for this lack of tempo etc.

Perhaps we need a more conservative approach from the start that allows us to play our way into the game and asses the strength of the opposition. Maybe spending 45 mins been given the run around just feeds the doubts and insecurities meaning we never get control of the game even when we do change things.

Its a conundrum but clearly what we do now isn't working and simply repeating things in the hope it finally works isn't much of an answer.

If we win the Champs League playing 442 I'll wear a United top to work. There's not a cat in hells chance. A more pragmatic approach is required in Europe and it's so blindingly obvious as to be incredibly frustrating that the manager can't see it. Or can he? He certainly went more conservative after the debacle against Munich, so I live in hope that he'll do so again.

Atletico defend with two banks of four .. they reached the CL finals ... They operate on a very small budget.

Then again Atletico do have many athletic, fit and disciplined players whereas we have many attack minded players who don't like to defend .

i don't think it is wise to rebuild the squad to make Pellegrini's job easier. I think the directors need to look at the squad and find the best way to use the squad rather than choosing a playing style and then finding the players that suit that style. If I was manager of MCFC I'd defend with a pragmatic 5-4-1 ..... we simply don't have the players to defend with a 4-4-2 .. i was hoping pellegrini could teach our players how to defend but 12 months on he still hasn't done it .. and i don't think he will.

 

[Marvin]

Hindsight aside, do you think playing Yaya in a MF 2 was the right call against a team like Roma?

Are Roma a better team than Chelsea? Do they have midfielders better capable of passing and moving the ball quickly than Chelsea?

I think the answer to your question has been answered several times over the course of the last few pages. We didn't draw because we played two in midfield, we drew because collectively the players were below par.

And the criticism of Toure's performances is becoming rank. He is slowly getting back to his best and was very good against Roma. Out passed, out ran, out everythinged Pjanic, supposedly the best player on the pitch that night.

Toure was not "very good" against Roma. He was not as awful as he has been in a couple of other games, but he was slow, offered nothing in defence, and created pretty much nothing in attack. 5-6 out of 10 performance at best -- but more detrimental to the team than that given the 4-4-2 setup MP decided to play.

Toure has always had that lumbering style. He's never going to press opposing midfielders, so when you play these high intensity European games it does stand out a bit. But I thought he made a big effort in midweek. We saw him picking the ball up and driving with it on several occasions, however on every occasion the quality with the final pass was missing which just about summed City up on the night.

I agree with the point above. City are struggling for confidence in Europe. We needed a result from our opening game in Bayern, and now we are under pressure again, but I think we will qualify.

 

[uwe rosler 28]

Doesn't matter what system/tactics/players pellers decides to use if we don't win the game he gets crucified on here its about time the blame was laid at the players he picks and not just the usual contenders Sergio navas and dzeko were also very poor on Tuesday but not heard them get mentioned.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Doesn't matter what system/tactics/players pellers decides to use if we don't win the game he gets crucified on here its about time the blame was laid at the players he picks and not just the usual contenders Sergio navas and dzeko were also very poor on Tuesday but not heard them get mentioned.

Navas got outmuscled, nothing quite fell for Sergio and Dzeko was excellent.

 

[moomba]

Not a fan of 2 up front and 2 in the centre of midfield (if one of them is Yaya). It can work, but often it leaves us too open. Then it's just a case of whether or not the opposition is good enough to take advantage. Invariably against the better sides they are.

But MP has pretty much tied his nuts to that philosophy, and the ends will justify the means. He's not done too badly for us so far.