Mark Duggan documentary on BBC1

cleavers said:
It could have, if he threw it before he got out of the mini cab, they were focussing on him at that stage.

I thought it had hints of some things being covered up without doubt, but I don't think anything was particularly convincing, and the witness that saw the gun taken from the taxi was very unconvincing (even to a jury), and from the footage a long way away to see it clearly.

Also the man who shot him clearly feared for his and others lives, put yourself in his split second decision, would you have shot, or waited to be shot ? Its a no brainer for him, the forensic expert evidence about what Duggan did, and where the shots hit him, were enough for him to shoot.

A very good documentary, but hard to draw any conclusions for me.
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I find it hard to believe that if he'd thrown it from the taxi no one would of seen that when there were so many purely focused on duggan and the taxi.

I do agree about the officer who shot, if he feared for his life then then it was instinct to protect yourself. Just seems what happened after that was covered up. If he didn't throw it from the taxi then there no way he could throw it that far with the injuries the forensic expert described.

Really interesting programme though, shame we probably will never know the truth.
 
willipp said:
I find it hard to believe that if he'd thrown it from the taxi no one would of seen that when there were so many purely focused on duggan and the taxi.
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I understand that, but if it was thrown from the taxi they wouldn't be looking for that, they were fully focussed on an armed man coming out of the taxi, not a fast moving relatively small object, so I can see why it might have been missed.

As you say we'll probably never know the truth, had he survived, he would have been the key witness.
 
cleavers said:
I understand that, but if it was thrown from the taxi they wouldn't be looking for that, they were fully focussed on an armed man coming out of the taxi, not a fast moving relatively small object, so I can see why it might have been missed.

As you say we'll probably never know the truth, had he survived, he would have been the key witness.
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Definitely seemed some of the witnesses that came forward weren't entirely reliable. The guy who said he saw the phone in his hand from about the 10th story and 200 yards away must be Clark Kent.
 
cleavers said:
I understand that, but if it was thrown from the taxi they wouldn't be looking for that, they were fully focussed on an armed man coming out of the taxi, not a fast moving relatively small object, so I can see why it might have been missed.

As you say we'll probably never know the truth, had he survived, he would have been the key witness.
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Didn't two of the coppers, including the one who fired, say they saw the gun clearly in his hand, as if time had stood still?
 
johnmc said:
Didn't two of the coppers, including the one who fired, say they saw the gun clearly in his hand, as if time had stood still?
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Yes, but they'd see what they expected to see in what is a moment in time. I don't think the guy who shot had any time to actually think about what he saw, and the "as if time stood still" comment probably more reflects thinking about it afterwards, and many times.

Its different thing I know, but I was involved in car crash many years ago, where I was hit to the driver (my) side of the car, just behind the drivers door. I probably hardly even the saw vehicle, let alone knew much about it, but years later I can still vividly see it all happen, and it seems to take an absolute age, however we were both doing 30mph, the other driver would have seen it longer than me as he hit the side of me, whereas I was focussing on the road ahead, yet my memory (still) tells me I saw it all, and it happened very slowly.

If I was just about to confront an 'armed' man, who turned to me, and went into his coat, I would see a gun and shoot, its human nature. I suspect the other guy was just backing up his colleague, and I suspect we'd all be prone to doing that.

As I said, whilst it was a well presented programme, it was hard to draw any real conclusions as to what actually happened.
 
Didn't see the program, but I sympathise with the Officers that shot him; a split second life or death decision.

He was a known criminal with a history of violence and was reported to be in possession of a firearm. Any law abiding citizen when confronted by a group of clearly identified armed police officers would stop in their tracks and do exactly what they were told. He didn't, and paid the price.
 
Always the way whenever a 20 something black man is shot he is always described as a budding lawyer/doctor/footballer despite having a list of convictions longer than my arm. Duggan was a scumbag who terrorised is community and brought misery to many.

What I will say is though that the police need to be investigated as his death stinks, I won't mourn his loss but I will mourn the manner of his death. If the police can cover this up what else are they covering up?
 
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