ono
Well-Known Member
Surely the fact he's only misplaced 3 passes in total against Spurs and Liverpool should tell you he's quality. He's something like 157/160.u2fme2 said:
That's insane.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Mascherano v Yaya
- Thread starter PrestwichPeteMcfc
- Start date
That's insane.
Robinhosthumb!
Well-Known Member
Yaya is head and shoulders above Mascherano,And not just in height ;)
Toure's one of the few centre mids about nowadays that can literally do everything, if he'd been born a decade earlier he'd have been rated even higher with the number of box to box midfielders and consequently the amount of space he'd have to take advantage of and the number of individual battles he'd be able to get into(and win) undoubtedly being higher.
He's one of the most cultured passers I've ever watched with a frame that big, it's a frightening combination. It's not even that he's a s big, strong lad who mainly uses his physical strength to overpower opponents but can keep the ball effectively - see Fellaini - but he's genuinely a really impressive passer on his own. He's got plenty of variety and quality in his passing that it alone is something to admire.
He's an excellent dribbler from deep too, which I don't think he's really shown at City yet because he's been slightly further up the pitch, but that in itself is a devastating weapon that can completely unhinge defences and is such a vital weapon in overloading a certain side of the defence or breaking through the centre and forcing the centre backs to either break their defensive line and close him down or back off and grant him space, so it'll always be an asset.
He's got a very decent striker too, but I don't think that's something that'll ever be a big asset of his. It's like saying Carrick's got a very decent strike. It's true, but it's so rarely used as well as it can it's not really worth mentioning. Whether that's because their technique is just generally inconsistent or that their natural somewhat languid style isn't favourable when in shooting positions, I'm not sure, but there's something to it.
Defensively I've always felt he was somewhat overrated[1] because he played as a nominal defensive midfielder for Barcelona, and because he could play at centre back, so I do think Mascherano's significantly stronger in that sense. He's quicker to close down the opposition, he's a terrific man-marker, and he's a more impressive tackler. That in the end isn't all that important, because Toure's an all-round midfielder and doesn't need dedicated specialities, and he's very useful defensively regardless.
I think Mascherano gets something of a rough ride from a lot of opposition fans though, he plays a limited role but he's brilliant at it, and it's a very important role at the end of the day. The quality and tenacity of his pressing is probably better than anyone else, and with the way Barcelona defend it'll make him incredibly important. As for what he does on the ball, he's got a very limited variety of passing but what's very useful, and what I think many ignore, is how quick he is to release the ball at all times, especially once he's won it back - this is becoming a key attack route for every top team, and the fact he's so good at starting counter-attacks makes him a better attacking option than many admit.
[1] - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.redcafe.net/f9/yaya-toure-254808/index3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.redcafe.net/f9/yaya-toure-254808/index3.html</a> (some of my comments on him, in case people are thinking I'm changing my opinion to suit the opinions on here)
He's one of the most cultured passers I've ever watched with a frame that big, it's a frightening combination. It's not even that he's a s big, strong lad who mainly uses his physical strength to overpower opponents but can keep the ball effectively - see Fellaini - but he's genuinely a really impressive passer on his own. He's got plenty of variety and quality in his passing that it alone is something to admire.
He's an excellent dribbler from deep too, which I don't think he's really shown at City yet because he's been slightly further up the pitch, but that in itself is a devastating weapon that can completely unhinge defences and is such a vital weapon in overloading a certain side of the defence or breaking through the centre and forcing the centre backs to either break their defensive line and close him down or back off and grant him space, so it'll always be an asset.
He's got a very decent striker too, but I don't think that's something that'll ever be a big asset of his. It's like saying Carrick's got a very decent strike. It's true, but it's so rarely used as well as it can it's not really worth mentioning. Whether that's because their technique is just generally inconsistent or that their natural somewhat languid style isn't favourable when in shooting positions, I'm not sure, but there's something to it.
Defensively I've always felt he was somewhat overrated[1] because he played as a nominal defensive midfielder for Barcelona, and because he could play at centre back, so I do think Mascherano's significantly stronger in that sense. He's quicker to close down the opposition, he's a terrific man-marker, and he's a more impressive tackler. That in the end isn't all that important, because Toure's an all-round midfielder and doesn't need dedicated specialities, and he's very useful defensively regardless.
I think Mascherano gets something of a rough ride from a lot of opposition fans though, he plays a limited role but he's brilliant at it, and it's a very important role at the end of the day. The quality and tenacity of his pressing is probably better than anyone else, and with the way Barcelona defend it'll make him incredibly important. As for what he does on the ball, he's got a very limited variety of passing but what's very useful, and what I think many ignore, is how quick he is to release the ball at all times, especially once he's won it back - this is becoming a key attack route for every top team, and the fact he's so good at starting counter-attacks makes him a better attacking option than many admit.
[1] - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.redcafe.net/f9/yaya-toure-254808/index3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.redcafe.net/f9/yaya-toure-254808/index3.html</a> (some of my comments on him, in case people are thinking I'm changing my opinion to suit the opinions on here)
City Raider
Well-Known Member
u2fme2 said:not seen enough of yaya yet to make my mind up
pretty much this but every game i have seen him play for us, he gets ahead of the ball far more than masch, not natural dm
KenTheLandlord
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Mar 2009
- Messages
- 4,256
Brwned said:Toure's one of the few centre mids about nowadays that can literally do everything, if he'd been born a decade earlier he'd have been rated even higher with the number of box to box midfielders and consequently the amount of space he'd have to take advantage of and the number of individual battles he'd be able to get into(and win) undoubtedly being higher.
He's one of the most cultured passers I've ever watched with a frame that big, it's a frightening combination. It's not even that he's a s big, strong lad who mainly uses his physical strength to overpower opponents but can keep the ball effectively - see Fellaini - but he's genuinely a really impressive passer on his own. He's got plenty of variety and quality in his passing that it alone is something to admire.
He's an excellent dribbler from deep too, which I don't think he's really shown at City yet because he's been slightly further up the pitch, but that in itself is a devastating weapon that can completely unhinge defences and is such a vital weapon in overloading a certain side of the defence or breaking through the centre and forcing the centre backs to either break their defensive line and close him down or back off and grant him space, so it'll always be an asset.
He's got a very decent striker too, but I don't think that's something that'll ever be a big asset of his. It's like saying Carrick's got a very decent strike. It's true, but it's so rarely used as well as it can it's not really worth mentioning. Whether that's because their technique is just generally inconsistent or that their natural somewhat languid style isn't favourable when in shooting positions, I'm not sure, but there's something to it.
Defensively I've always felt he was somewhat overrated[1] because he played as a nominal defensive midfielder for Barcelona, and because he could play at centre back, so I do think Mascherano's significantly stronger in that sense. He's quicker to close down the opposition, he's a terrific man-marker, and he's a more impressive tackler. That in the end isn't all that important, because Toure's an all-round midfielder and doesn't need dedicated specialities, and he's very useful defensively regardless.
I think Mascherano gets something of a rough ride from a lot of opposition fans though, he plays a limited role but he's brilliant at it, and it's a very important role at the end of the day. The quality and tenacity of his pressing is probably better than anyone else, and with the way Barcelona defend it'll make him incredibly important. As for what he does on the ball, he's got a very limited variety of passing but what's very useful, and what I think many ignore, is how quick he is to release the ball at all times, especially once he's won it back - this is becoming a key attack route for every top team, and the fact he's so good at starting counter-attacks makes him a better attacking option than many admit.
[1] - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.redcafe.net/f9/yaya-toure-254808/index3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.redcafe.net/f9/yaya-toure-254808/index3.html</a> (some of my comments on him, in case people are thinking I'm changing my opinion to suit the opinions on here)
You view point was
He prefers someone who sticks a foot in, which is fair enough in the position he plays.
Yaya Toure, for such a big lad, isn't all that physical and intimidating in his play. His play's very aesthetically pleasing, actually. He's very comfortable on the ball, whether running with it or stroking it around with relative ease, and he has a powerful strike on him, but he's not at the level of Busquets or Fletcher in terms of tenacity.
He's very talented, but he doesn't make enough use of it often enough. For a supposed defensive midfielder to be better off the ball than on it is very unusual, and I think given the fact he plays the role of the most defensive of the three it allows people to assume he's better there than he really is.
His ability on the ball is undoubtedly impressive, his ability off it is a lot more questionable.
If you think Fletcher or Busquets are in the same ball park, as you red sox would call it, then you seriously need a lie down.
He was certainly good enough a centre half when Barcelona gave you a lesson in football.
KenTheLandlord said:Brwned said:Toure's one of the few centre mids about nowadays that can literally do everything, if he'd been born a decade earlier he'd have been rated even higher with the number of box to box midfielders and consequently the amount of space he'd have to take advantage of and the number of individual battles he'd be able to get into(and win) undoubtedly being higher.
He's one of the most cultured passers I've ever watched with a frame that big, it's a frightening combination. It's not even that he's a s big, strong lad who mainly uses his physical strength to overpower opponents but can keep the ball effectively - see Fellaini - but he's genuinely a really impressive passer on his own. He's got plenty of variety and quality in his passing that it alone is something to admire.
He's an excellent dribbler from deep too, which I don't think he's really shown at City yet because he's been slightly further up the pitch, but that in itself is a devastating weapon that can completely unhinge defences and is such a vital weapon in overloading a certain side of the defence or breaking through the centre and forcing the centre backs to either break their defensive line and close him down or back off and grant him space, so it'll always be an asset.
He's got a very decent striker too, but I don't think that's something that'll ever be a big asset of his. It's like saying Carrick's got a very decent strike. It's true, but it's so rarely used as well as it can it's not really worth mentioning. Whether that's because their technique is just generally inconsistent or that their natural somewhat languid style isn't favourable when in shooting positions, I'm not sure, but there's something to it.
Defensively I've always felt he was somewhat overrated[1] because he played as a nominal defensive midfielder for Barcelona, and because he could play at centre back, so I do think Mascherano's significantly stronger in that sense. He's quicker to close down the opposition, he's a terrific man-marker, and he's a more impressive tackler. That in the end isn't all that important, because Toure's an all-round midfielder and doesn't need dedicated specialities, and he's very useful defensively regardless.
I think Mascherano gets something of a rough ride from a lot of opposition fans though, he plays a limited role but he's brilliant at it, and it's a very important role at the end of the day. The quality and tenacity of his pressing is probably better than anyone else, and with the way Barcelona defend it'll make him incredibly important. As for what he does on the ball, he's got a very limited variety of passing but what's very useful, and what I think many ignore, is how quick he is to release the ball at all times, especially once he's won it back - this is becoming a key attack route for every top team, and the fact he's so good at starting counter-attacks makes him a better attacking option than many admit.
[1] - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.redcafe.net/f9/yaya-toure-254808/index3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.redcafe.net/f9/yaya-toure-254808/index3.html</a> (some of my comments on him, in case people are thinking I'm changing my opinion to suit the opinions on here)
You view point was
He prefers someone who sticks a foot in, which is fair enough in the position he plays.
Yaya Toure, for such a big lad, isn't all that physical and intimidating in his play. His play's very aesthetically pleasing, actually. He's very comfortable on the ball, whether running with it or stroking it around with relative ease, and he has a powerful strike on him, but he's not at the level of Busquets or Fletcher in terms of tenacity.
He's very talented, but he doesn't make enough use of it often enough. For a supposed defensive midfielder to be better off the ball than on it is very unusual, and I think given the fact he plays the role of the most defensive of the three it allows people to assume he's better there than he really is.
His ability on the ball is undoubtedly impressive, his ability off it is a lot more questionable.
If you think Fletcher or Busquets are in the same ball park, as you red sox would call it, then you seriously need a lie down.
He was certainly good enough a centre half when Barcelona gave you a lesson in football.
Key word there being tenacity. It's nice to see you picked out the most specific and almost irrelevant part of the point in there, though. Well done.
I'll highlight the main part though - "his ability on the ball is undoubtedly impressive". And with the way you're playing him, it seems Mancini recognises that and doesn't want to limit him to playing a role that he doesn't suit, it exposes some of his weaknesses to a small extent, and restrains many of his assets.
He's a ball player. He's not a defensive midfielder. Playing him as a defensive midfielder limited his quality and thus stopped him from showing his full ability. Playing him in the way City have has shown how much better he can be.
Oh, and playing as a centre back and playing as a defensive mid are hugely different, even in a defensive sense, but that's not really very important.
KenTheLandlord
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Mar 2009
- Messages
- 4,256
Brwned said:KenTheLandlord said:You view point was
He prefers someone who sticks a foot in, which is fair enough in the position he plays.
Yaya Toure, for such a big lad, isn't all that physical and intimidating in his play. His play's very aesthetically pleasing, actually. He's very comfortable on the ball, whether running with it or stroking it around with relative ease, and he has a powerful strike on him, but he's not at the level of Busquets or Fletcher in terms of tenacity.
He's very talented, but he doesn't make enough use of it often enough. For a supposed defensive midfielder to be better off the ball than on it is very unusual, and I think given the fact he plays the role of the most defensive of the three it allows people to assume he's better there than he really is.
His ability on the ball is undoubtedly impressive, his ability off it is a lot more questionable.
If you think Fletcher or Busquets are in the same ball park, as you red sox would call it, then you seriously need a lie down.
He was certainly good enough a centre half when Barcelona gave you a lesson in football.
Key word there being tenacity. It's nice to see you picked out the most specific and almost irrelevant part of the point in there, though. Well done.
I'll highlight the main part though - "his ability on the ball is undoubtedly impressive". And with the way you're playing him, it seems Mancini recognises that and doesn't want to limit him to playing a role that he doesn't suit, it exposes some of his weaknesses to a small extent, and restrains many of his assets.
He's a ball player. He's not a defensive midfielder. Playing him as a defensive midfielder limited his quality and thus stopped him from showing his full ability. Playing him in the way City have has shown how much better he can be.
Oh, and playing as a centre back and playing as a defensive mid are hugely different, even in a defensive sense, but that's not really very important.
your good at writing irrelevant parts of points though.
i like you, you write large amounts of stuff we already know.
Forums are pointless if people just write one-liners constantly. Elaborating is good no matter how simple the point is.
You obviously need people to elaborate so you don't somehow get confused, e.g. thinking I implied, in any way, that Fletcher or Busquets are as good as Toure.
You obviously need people to elaborate so you don't somehow get confused, e.g. thinking I implied, in any way, that Fletcher or Busquets are as good as Toure.
blueherbert
New Member
- Joined
- 1 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 2
Brwned said:Forums are pointless if people just write one-liners constantly. Elaborating is good no matter how simple the point is.
You obviously need people to elaborate so you don't somehow get confused, e.g. thinking I implied, in any way, that Fletcher or Busquets are as good as Toure.
Unfortunately there is a view in the Catalan papers often (I have just left Barcelona after working there 4 years ) YaYa is Black and like Eto, was not seen by Barca hierarchy as acceptable. Argentinians speak the Spanish language also.
PrestwichPeteMcfc said:Barca's manager was saying today that they need a defensive midfielder. They sold Yaya and now they're after Mascherano. To me there's not much difference in quality. Was there any other reason they got rid of Yaya?
do not worry - you are not alone in mis-understanding what Ya Ya gives as a player
Nearest comparison for Mascherano is de jong