Maybe i was wrong about Elano

[jay_mcfc]

Looked through the thread, just for you Billy, and this is the best you can do? Yet more vaseline dropping on Hughes arsehole. Funny how Elano wasn't a bad influence last year isn't it? He's probably close to the root of our dressing room problems you say? That's a bold statement, I'll make a bold statement too....Mark Hughes is probably just as close. The way English football fans cream themselves over a hard working manager with regimented training techniques is fucking embarrassing. Let's play 4-4-2, direct football and make sure the full backs don't cross the half way line too.

Jay, what's your point mate? Elano's on his way out, and Hughes is still manager...

The rant about the hard working manager with regimented training techniques. Well, I would hope all managers are hard working and have regimented training techniques. They are professionals paid to do a job. I would hate to think they turn up each day and just decide how to train off the cuff.

Not entirely sure what you're ranting about there...but oh well...I'm sure you and Moomba get it.

What makes me laugh though Billy, is you telling me to go read other people's opinions in this thread. Why the fuck should I? It's the same old drivel post after post after post, I've read it all a million times. In the last few weeks I've not even said Elano is in the wrong/right because as the rumours have progressed it's pretty clear there are problems. My point in this thread is exactly the same as moomba's, the club is leaving their players out to dry, all the leaks and snippets of information has meant the majority of fans have started turning on 2 or 3 players and that is disgusting. Sell them yes but keep it in house instead of dealing with things in the public.

I've highlighted the passage above so everyone passing through this thread can have a good giggle. Why don't you ask Ric if you and Moomba can have your own forum where you can stand face to face and circle jerk over pictures of Elano and Sven...whilst throwing darts at pictures of Hughes in a United shirt...

You really are a silly boy sometimes...;- )

BTW, you didn't answer the question I asked of Bob, you, and MC1...would be fascinated with what your thoughts are...

Aren't you getting in enough petty squabbles on here? You highlighted something so everyone can laugh...is that right? I tell you what next time I'll put all of my posts in bold hey, save you a job? I thought that the bit in bold was pretty balanced actually, didn't blame anyone on either side but said the clubs leaks of their players bad behaviour is pretty pathetic. That includes the leaks on Ball, Hamann and TBH.

A couple of other points too, I don't give a shit that Hughes is an ex rag and never have. It takes up about 10% of the hatred I have of him and I've never been one to mention that when talking about him...so again you're wrong.

Secondly, this obsession with Sven that everyone thinks I have isn't really true is it? Yes I was disgusted when he left and yes I still think it was wrong. But I never post about Sven now unless it's in retaliation to someone posting absolute shit and lies about him and his performance/signings. I started 1 thread about his signings a couple of weeks ago and that was that. Try reading my posts and not think about who the poster is.

 

[jay_mcfc]

i call it like i see it. little things on the pitch, off the pitch, in interviews. everything fits one pattern, one internal logic. call it paranoia if u like, i call it people-watching.

Haha now that's funny. I call that deluded.

 

[Anonymous]

Aren't you getting in enough petty squabbles on here?

It's tough not to squabble with someone who start their post with

Looked through the thread, just for you Billy, and this is the best you can do? Yet more vaseline dropping on Hughes arsehole.

Ahh the sweet stench of hypocrisy...

Secondly, this obsession with Sven that everyone thinks I have isn't really true is it? Yes I was disgusted when he left and yes I still think it was wrong. But I never post about Sven now unless it's in retaliation to someone posting absolute shit and lies about him and his performance/signings. I started 1 thread about his signings a couple of weeks ago and that was that. Try reading my posts and not think about who the poster is.

I wasn't referring to your opinion of Sven...I was referring to the question I asked about the opinion of someone who has trained under both Sven and Hughes...I see you ignored it as it's tough to argue with...

 

[BobKowalski]

And Bob, an honest and serious question...

If a current player in our squad, one who was in theory being heralded as our player of the season, said words to the effect of "Sven was a good manager and we all liked him, but Hughes is definitely the man to take us forward." Not in a press statement, but privately - would you reconsider your views on Hughes, bearing in mind that said player got to play under both managers, and saw first hand their training methods, tactical nous etc...

You mean Stephen Ireland

If in the unlikely event Mr Ireland said to me something along those lines and genuinely meant it then yes I would have to rethink my opinion. I would also love to get his private views on everything else that is going on; Richards lack of form, the Didi story and TBH etc.

What I would ideally like to get is a private chat with Hughes - now that would be fascinating.

The crux of the issue though is not do we clear players out; change the mentality of the club etc I was arguing for a whole change in attitude and a winning mentality last season. I wanted us to be like Chelsea then and was told that was not possible given Frank didn't have that sort of money - actually he had no money as it turned out.

This season we do have the money and we do need a manager who will hardwire a winning mentality into the DNA of MCFC and yes players will be uncomfortable and some will leave. Hughes is not wrong in his assesment but he is totally the wrong man for the job. I don't think he is strong enough and lacks that inner core of self belief to do successfully what is required.

Can he grow into the challenge? I doubt it but I cannot rule out the possibility although the harm done whilst waiting for him to rise to the challenge may prove his undoing anyway.

Ultimately the situation is a no brainer. You want the best players and you get the best manager to build a team out of the best players. Then you win things. It is very simple. But MCFC has to decide who it wants to be. The new Chelsea or the new improved Blackburn. It cannot be both. If you allow Hughes his head you will get a modestly successful PL team in 3 years. If you want to be Chelsea then you hire the man for the job - Mourinho - and you will be PL champions in 3 years.

It is for ADUG to make that choice and to bankroll it accordingly.

So Billy who do you want us to be?

 

[jay_mcfc]

I didn't ignore that question because I didn't see it. The simple answer would be that that is one opinion from a squad of 30. For every player that has flourished under Hughes there are 2 that are not. Hart, Elano, Dunne, Richards and Ball have been worse whilst Ireland and Garrido are considerably better. Ireland says Hughes is the man to take us forward, Elano and Ball might say he isn't?? Where does that leave us? Sven was very popular with most players but some players might want a 'hard' manager, it's swings and roundabouts and to try and use one mans opinion as a definitive answer is naive.

And Ireland was working hard way before Hughes became manager, he said so himself. He took a long hard look at himself after the Boro game and said he immediately upped his training regime and worked extremely hard on his fitness even before Hughes was manager. I suppose in that sense he was ready for Hughes becoming manager and at this stage in his career he needs someone like Hughes. But it's not what Ireland needs it's what the club needs.

 

[rastus]

I think Hughes so far he has done poorly, with mitigating circumstances.

I can't judge him yet. It would be disingenuous and unfair. I'll wait until he's rid the dressing room of the players who don't want to be there, or know they're not going to be there and have stopped trying.

And like all managers who start at a new club, I'll give him AT LEAST a season to see if there are signs of progress.

It may well turn out to be that Hughes isn't the man for us. Right now we don't now.

I'm surprised that you are ambivalent to the opinion of a player who trained under both managers, was rated by both, and got plenty of game time under both. I would suggest his opinion carries far more weight than any of ours do...

Crikey I wish youd employ me if you had a sales team, if you do amd have any Managerial vacancies please PM me.

 

[mancity1]

I think Hughes so far he has done poorly, with mitigating circumstances.

I can't judge him yet. It would be disingenuous and unfair. I'll wait until he's rid the dressing room of the players who don't want to be there, or know they're not going to be there and have stopped trying.

And like all managers who start at a new club, I'll give him AT LEAST a season to see if there are signs of progress.

It may well turn out to be that Hughes isn't the man for us. Right now we don't now.

I'm surprised that you are ambivalent to the opinion of a player who trained under both managers, was rated by both, and got plenty of game time under both. I would suggest his opinion carries far more weight than any of ours do...

Its again because of mitigating circumstances BS so you shouldn't be surprised.

I look at Ireland who says he has put in the hard yards during the off season and it has paid some dividends for him.

He has earned his spot in the starting eleven and I hope he continues to improve his level of consistency as he has a long way to go but provided he keeps his head in the right place he could make a name for himself over a number of years but a Giggs , Lampard , Gerrard or a Scholes he aint yet by a long shot.

He has been a member of a side that has lost to the likes of Boro, Wigan, Bolton and Brighton and I hope he is fuming and hurting like hell because of it because next time we play those sides he will want to make sure and do his part to ensure that the result is different.

He would not be the only player who would say that Hughes is the man that should be given more time as manager of the football club but that doesn't mean much in the scheme of things , what matters is what Ireland wants for the club in terms of on field success and if he truly knows and believes he can be part of the first eleven that will achieve that success.

 

[bizzbo]

i call it like i see it. little things on the pitch, off the pitch, in interviews. everything fits one pattern, one internal logic. call it paranoia if u like, i call it people-watching.

Haha now that's funny. I call that deluded.

ok now let's hear your assesment of his charector. if you are still unhappy with mine, i could give you specific examples of the incidences that lead me to form mine.

 

[Anonymous]

You mean Stephen Ireland

If in the unlikely event Mr Ireland said to me something along those lines and genuinely meant it then yes I would have to rethink my opinion. I would also love to get his private views on everything else that is going on; Richards lack of form, the Didi story and TBH etc.

I hope I'm not betraying another poster's confidence, but I believe what I posted is pretty much what he said. I didn't ask for the ins and outs of every players morale, but I can safely say that there are players who simply don't care. Didn't care when the chips were down last season, and don't care now. The difference is that last season, and this by no means a dig at Sven, their places weren't under threat.

But MCFC has to decide who it wants to be. The new Chelsea or the new improved Blackburn. It cannot be both. If you allow Hughes his head you will get a modestly successful PL team in 3 years. If you want to be Chelsea then you hire the man for the job - Mourinho - and you will be PL champions in 3 years.

It is for ADUG to make that choice and to bankroll it accordingly.

So Billy who do you want us to be?

It's funny because i've posted elsewhere that there are a lot of posters who are taking the black or white approach. We're either Chelsea or Blackburn. I'm going to respectfully decline to answer that question on the basis that we are Manchester City. Our success, or lack of it, will be down to the management and players we have playing for us. To criticize Hughes for taking a no mark club and turning them into a competitive and relatively successful premier league side is a stick you want to beat him with, then so be it. If you don't like his style of play. So be it.

I respect your right to think Hughes isn't up to the job. Believe me, I've had my doubts. But, and this is the truth, believe it or not: if our most consistent performer this season says categorically that Hughes is the man to take us forward...whilst saying he really liked Sven, then I'm prepared to let that be the end of it for now.

Maybe both myself and the player will be proven wrong...maybe we'll be proven right. Lets wait and see...

 

[BobKowalski]

Maybe both myself and the player will be proven wrong...maybe we'll be proven right. Lets wait and see...

Agreed

 

[moomba]

A very disingenuous, politicians reply and you don't seek to debate the very detailed points I made. We were top 4 at Xmas weren't we? Getting us to 9th from there wasn't what I'd call "doing well". Let me give you some more figures about the first half of last season.

Getting us to 9th was doing well. It's irrelevant whether we started well and dropped off, or struggled at the start and did well in the second half. Disingenuous, politicians reply? FFS, it was just an honest answer to a loaded question.

Getting 9th with his squad of (apparently) unmanageable, championship calibre players was a good job.

 

[moomba]

Why don't you ask Ric if you and Moomba can have your own forum where you can stand face to face and circle jerk over pictures of Elano and Sven...whilst throwing darts at pictures of Hughes in a United shirt...

Wow, go away for a few hours and you're still posting about me. Perhaps we do need a separate forum.

As for Elano, I've said that if Hughes wants to get rid he should do so. No secret that I like him as a player, and I think he has a lot to offer if a top class manager can get the best out of it.

Sven, was one of the 70% who didn't want him. Was very impressed with his demeanour while he was at the club. Was proud that he was our manager. In a poll on here a few weeks ago said that I didn't want him back as manager.

Hughes, don't care that he played for them. Cheered Cole, cheered the Goat, cheered Cooke and Schmeichel. Not arsed that he's a twat that played for the rags. Not happy that he's a twat that is the manager of our club.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good sulk. And you have a go at me about honesty and integrity, ha ha ha.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, go away for a few hours and you're still posting about me. Perhaps we do need a separate forum.

Everybody loves a comedy villain, and you my disingenuous friend, are it...;- )

As for Elano, I've said that if Hughes wants to get rid he should do so. No secret that I like him as a player, and I think he has a lot to offer if a top class manager can get the best out of it.

Like I said...waiting on Mourinho, Benitez, Wenger, Ferguson, et al to come and pinch the little maestro off us...;- )

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good sulk. And you have a go at me about honesty and integrity, ha ha ha.

Did you manage to find the article confirming Chelsea's bid for Walcott prior to the summer of 2005...;- )

BTW, if you close your eyes and scream at the top of your lungs "Billy Shears is a lying sulker" it still won't make it true...its just going to make your head hurt more...

 

[Disturbance]

Why don't you ask Ric if you and Moomba can have your own forum where you can stand face to face and circle jerk over pictures of Elano and Sven...whilst throwing darts at pictures of Hughes in a United shirt...

Wow, go away for a few hours and you're still posting about me. Perhaps we do need a separate forum.

As for Elano, I've said that if Hughes wants to get rid he should do so. No secret that I like him as a player, and I think he has a lot to offer if a top class manager can get the best out of it.

Sven, was one of the 70% who didn't want him. Was very impressed with his demeanour while he was at the club. Was proud that he was our manager. In a poll on here a few weeks ago said that I didn't want him back as manager.

Hughes, don't care that he played for them. Cheered Cole, cheered the Goat, cheered Cooke and Schmeichel. Not arsed that he's a twat that played for the rags. Not happy that he's a twat that is the manager of our club.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good sulk. And you have a go at me about honesty and integrity, ha ha ha.

That guy is a complete cock and his quoted post reminds me exactly why I put him on my ignore list :/

 

[moomba]

Like I said...waiting on Mourinho, Benitez, Wenger, Ferguson, et al to come and pinch the little maestro off us...;- )

Not sure I ever suggested the best clubs in the world needed Elano.

Did you manage to find the article confirming Chelsea's bid for Walcott prior to the summer of 2005...;- )

Haven't looked yet, have been out. Now cooking dinnner.

BTW, if you close your eyes and scream at the top of your lungs "Billy Shears is a lying sulker" it still won't make it true...its just going to make your head hurt more...

I don't think about you that much to be honest. Seems to be more your sort of thing.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

And do not forget for a second who wrote this article... If you don't know him yet read some of the other various threads on his "handy work"; (aka pathetic journalism).

16 pages of squabbling about Elano, do you think maybe this divisive red "journalist" is getting his own way?

 

[bizzbo]

And do not forget for a second who wrote this article... If you don't know him yet read some of the other various threads on his "handy work"; (aka pathetic journalism).

16 pages of squabbling about Elano, do you think maybe this divisive red "journalist" is getting his own way?

it's basically a continuation of the same thing that has been printed in several papers and occasionally backed up by people here over the last few months.

 

[Blue Mooner]

Anyone else question whether Elano's free kicks in the last two games were bad because he can no longer take free kicks or because he was 'perhaps' taking them badly on purpose ? They were quite possibly the worst free kicks I have ever seen.

Was Hammans throw-in straight to a Forest player (and across our own box which 'anyone' who has played football knows is a complete no no) also potentially done deliberately ?

Of course nothing at all on which to base this on other than these two have been identified as two of the trouble causers.

Of course the players loved Sven they got to do whatever the f*ck they liked. I'd love my manager if I could swan off for a two hour lunch break and invite the missus into the office in the afternoon.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

A very disingenuous, politicians reply and you don't seek to debate the very detailed points I made. We were top 4 at Xmas weren't we? Getting us to 9th from there wasn't what I'd call "doing well". Let me give you some more figures about the first half of last season.

Getting us to 9th was doing well. It's irrelevant whether we started well and dropped off, or struggled at the start and did well in the second half. Disingenuous, politicians reply? FFS, it was just an honest answer to a loaded question.

Getting 9th with his squad of (apparently) unmanageable, championship calibre players was a good job.

It was just about acceptable at best imho. The point I was making was that it relied very heavily on Elano's early season performances and Johnson's. Once those two were out of the picture then the "usual suspects" (excluding Hamann) were awful.