Maybe i was wrong about Elano

[rastus]

Elano has little option but to leave since he has been credited rightly or wrongly with all the ills of our season to date and I don't think there is anyway back from this especially as it is a recurring story every other day in the media (and if you think it isn't the club with Hughes backing doing the leaking of internal club matters then yes Santa Claus does exist, bless).

I am unsure as to why or how Elano wields such influence in the dressing room or quite why a young player like Jo who is new to the country and the club ends up carrying the can along with Elano but there you go obviously the club are not fans of Fergie's nuturing style of management when it comes to younger talent.

The TBH affair baffles me even further. First Hughes buys him. Then he didn't buy him. TBH comes to MCFC citing Hughes as part of the reason. Some months later he is questioning (allegedly) Hughes management abilities and is now banished from the squad never to return. Not bad in your first 6 months!

Now for the two that really baffle the hell out of me. One is Hamann. A model prop at a top club for years and you would be pushed to find a 'pool fan that doesn't rate him. Then a year under Pearce who had no idea how to play Hamann but no bad word said from either side. Sven finds a role for him and he blossoms albeit he is getting on so very much a nice footnote to his career. But then what happens on the brink of retirement? He inexpiciably decides to go rogue on Hughes and thats not all one of his partners in crime is apparently Vassell who despite what you can say about Darius, lack of effort is not one of them. Worried about being moved on by all accounts. This the same Darius who Sven tried to flog to Derby last season and still gave 100% for the cause.

I swear that Hughes is the only manager in the PL who has managed to piss off players he actually plays as opposed to those who just piss off the ones who don't get picked :)

As to who said what to whom and the rights and wrongs I am in the 'plague on both sides' camp at the moment. It needs sorting. Do it behind closed doors. Stop leaking to the press and kindly sort it. Thank you.

As a side note I never believe that the manager is automatically entitled to respect from his staff if he fails over the cause of his tenure to earn that respect through words and deeds. He is entitled to move staff on and bring in staff who share his philosophy etc but the he 'deserves respect because he is the manager' died out in every other industry years ago and football is not immune to cultural shifts in attitudes. Players lambasting the management in the media is wrong and disrespectful. Management doing the same to players is equally distasteful.

Very strange re: Haman & Vas.
With regard to respect and trust, I find it difficult to understand Hughes way of gaining this, I think he needs to review this statement:

Mark Bowen: People have this impression that you are distant and quiet don't they Mark.

Mark Hughes: I think it’s a consequence of the job I do. I’m never going to be as accessible as you are, because of the demands upon my time. I’m doing lots of other things, so players don’t have that access to me anyway. That’s not artificially created, but on the field of play I think it’s very important that you have that distance. You can’t have friendships with players, you need respect and trust.

I think I earn that trust by making sure that the coaches and the people I have working with them are absolutely top quality, and as a consequence they all know that my management team knows what they are doing

 

[OB1]

More leaks designed to turn the supporters against particular players.

If he thinks the club is better off without certain people Hughes should sell them and move on, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by the character assasination that Hughes seems to indulge in. Disgraceful leadership.

And does anyone think that Elano, Jo and TBH are so influential in the dressing room if they can affect the result against West Brom, a game none of them played in.

There is without doubt a lot of truth in this piece and although it does not reflect well on some players, it also reflects badly on Hughes in my opinion. From what I can make out (and I heard some opinions from inside the dressing room yesterday from a close relative who has a friend in the squad) Hughes and his coaching staff's man management has not been good and his pointing the finger at everyone but himself is not an endearing trait.

There's no doubt that Elano is a tricky character to handle but to get a dressing room with both real talent and no temperamental players would be some feat and I think a manager has to be sophisticated enough to handle that at a top club but I see little evidence of that from Hughes. What is interesting is that he seems to have been closer to his players at Blackburn, based on what they told one of the City players.

 

[interpol]

Let's face it, Moomba is never wrong.....end of.

 

[moomba]

Let's face it, Moomba is never wrong.....end of.

Keep talking about me. I might get my own board on here someday.

 

[mancity1]

Oh dear, time for you to have a lie down.

What I said about Walcott was neither dishonest, or disingenuous. And given that you inferred that we could have bought him for £3m I'd suggest I was closer to the money than you were.

Was your statement that Chelsea bid 6 mill for Walcott Moomba , from a press clipping or was it from the club?

 

[BobKowalski]

More leaks designed to turn the supporters against particular players.

If he thinks the club is better off without certain people Hughes should sell them and move on, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by the character assasination that Hughes seems to indulge in. Disgraceful leadership.

And does anyone think that Elano, Jo and TBH are so influential in the dressing room if they can affect the result against West Brom, a game none of them played in.

... What is interesting is that he seems to have been closer to his players at Blackburn, based on what they told one of the City players.

Which is presumably why he is keen to bring in players that he has worked with/knows to try and recreate that bond. Not initself a bad thing unless quality is sacrificed in his quest to get the squad back onside.

 

[moomba]

Fact the price was 2. 5 mill pearce said i am not paying that for a 16 yr old

Wrong. The £3m (or £2.5m) was the price that Wigley recommend we pay for him. He was never going to be sold for that little, and he was never going to come to us when Chelsea and Arsenal were interested.

 

[moomba]

Oh dear, time for you to have a lie down.

What I said about Walcott was neither dishonest, or disingenuous. And given that you inferred that we could have bought him for £3m I'd suggest I was closer to the money than you were.

I'm sure Pearce himself said the he was recommended him by Wigley when he was a kid but didn't act upon it and he was gutted about that

Sold for a fee rising to £12m six months after the recommendation. £3m was never going to do the trick, and Walcott was never going to choose City ahead of some of the other clubs after him.

 

[moomba]

Was your statement that Chelsea bid 6 mill for Walcott Moomba , from a press clipping or was it from the club?

From the press, I've found a link from late 2005 where Lowe said he wasn't interested in selling Walcott after reports of an £8m bid from Chelsea. I'll try and find some earlier ones.

 

[badge]

it comes to something when a player is picked for his hard work in training rather than his actual ability.

i'm genuinely worried that hughes can't handle the real footballers. sure, he's probably great at getting lesser players to run through brick walls for him. it works at clubs like blackburn, bolton etc. but i'm concerned about the type of players he's after and will continue to go after, knowing that players blessed with skill are not going to take to the manager's training regime and tactics.

 

[mancity1]

... What is interesting is that he seems to have been closer to his players at Blackburn, based on what they told one of the City players.

Which is presumably why he is keen to bring in players that he has worked with/knows to try and recreate that bond. Not initself a bad thing unless quality is sacrificed in his quest to get the squad back onside.

This can only lead to more instability assuming there is some truth in it BK especially in the short term at its the last thing we need now.

Better that Hughes gets players he hasn't worked with before as he said when he came to City he needs to challenge himself , what better way than with some real class , some scrappers ( not that we have any at present ) and some untried / inexperienced youth all in the same side at once and if you look at it all the top premiership sides have all three components in their current starting eleven to a degree.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh dear, time for you to have a lie down.

What I said about Walcott was neither dishonest, or disingenuous. And given that you inferred that we could have bought him for £3m I'd suggest I was closer to the money than you were.

Did you not say "Wrong. Chelsea had already had a bid of double that rejected..."

Then later from the same thread "Not sure if Chelsea ever formalized a bid..."

I'm talking about those points. The ones above. Are they not clear enough. Should I get someone to draw you a diagram.

Ahh well...you've well and truly screwed yourself with that one...keep banging those drums. I believe with each passing post, less and less people can hear them...;- )

 

[zeusbheld]

More leaks designed to turn the supporters against particular players.

seems likely that he's going to sell them anyway and is just priming the supporters to not throw a tantrum over it.

 

[BobKowalski]

Which is presumably why he is keen to bring in players that he has worked with/knows to try and recreate that bond. Not initself a bad thing unless quality is sacrificed in his quest to get the squad back onside.

This can only lead to more instability assuming there is some truth in it BK especially in the short term at its the last thing we need now.

Better that Hughes gets players he hasn't worked with before as he said when he came to City he needs to challenge himself , what better way than with some real class , some scrappers ( not that we have any at present ) and some untried / inexperienced youth all in the same side at once and if you look at it all the top premiership sides have all three components in their current starting eleven to a degree.

Agreed that this is what Hughes said when joining and no doubt believed but he is now is poistion where his job is possibly on the line so all bets are off. Will say that this is just my speculation I have no idea what Hughes thinking is on transfers given we have only bought Bridge so far (or possibly a Bridge too far) and he is a solid buy. Guess we will know more when we see who actually signs.

 

[Mike D]

it comes to something when a player is picked for his hard work in training rather than his actual ability.

i'm genuinely worried that hughes can't handle the real footballers. sure, he's probably great at getting lesser players to run through brick walls for him. it works at clubs like blackburn, bolton etc. but i'm concerned about the type of players he's after and will continue to go after, knowing that players blessed with skill are not going to take to the manager's training regime and tactics.

Spot on so why are we still walking around with this blind optmism that by replacing all the players with new signings will solve all our problems. For me the problems are the fact that we have too much money to spend.

What really needs to happen is somebody to tell Hughes there's no money available for further transfers and work with the players he's got and make him work with all of them not allowing anyone to be shipped out. It is only then whether we will find out whether he is up to the job

 

[mancity1]

Oh dear, time for you to have a lie down.

What I said about Walcott was neither dishonest, or disingenuous. And given that you inferred that we could have bought him for £3m I'd suggest I was closer to the money than you were.

Did you not say "Wrong. Chelsea had already had a bid of double that rejected..."

Then later from the same thread "Not sure if Chelsea ever formalized a bid..."

I'm talking about those points. The ones above. Are they not clear enough. Should I get someone to draw you a diagram.

Ahh well...you've well and truly screwed yourself with that one...keep banging those drums. I believe with each passing post, less and less people can hear them...;- )

I have also asked Moomba as to whether the rejected bid came from the club itself or a press clipping as that is important to distinguish for obvious reasons.

Moomba does have a tendency of contradicting himself from time to time but to call it dishonesty well I call it a memory fade combined with a quick need to attempt to correct someone and sometimes you end up correcting yourself.

 

[OB1]

... What is interesting is that he seems to have been closer to his players at Blackburn, based on what they told one of the City players.

Which is presumably why he is keen to bring in players that he has worked with/knows to try and recreate that bond. Not initself a bad thing unless quality is sacrificed in his quest to get the squad back onside.

Hughes does not appear to have made much attempt to make any sort of bond with the players he inherited, which I find very odd but I am as certain as I can be about that as I have heard stuff about him being very aloof from his players from three different but very informed sources.

Also I seem to recall Steve Bruce - who I usually have zip time for - commenting before the Wigan game something along the lines that he was surprised Hughes went into management given his quiet personality.

There's a relationship problem at City and I think there's fault on both sides but it's the manager's job to sort it and his approach seems to be wait until he can get rid.

 

[BobKowalski]

.

Moomba does have a tendency of contradicting himself from time to time but to call it dishonesty well I call it a memory fade combined with a quick need to attempt to correct someone and sometimes you end up correcting yourself.

We all contradict ourselves sometimes - even Billy who I seem to recall posting early on in the season that Hughes needed to finish top 4 this season or he would be gone in the summer :)

 

[interpol]

More leaks designed to turn the supporters against particular players.

This is fact is it? And you can prove it how?

 

[Anonymous]

Did you not say "Wrong. Chelsea had already had a bid of double that rejected..."

Then later from the same thread "Not sure if Chelsea ever formalized a bid..."

I'm talking about those points. The ones above. Are they not clear enough. Should I get someone to draw you a diagram.

Ahh well...you've well and truly screwed yourself with that one...keep banging those drums. I believe with each passing post, less and less people can hear them...;- )

I have also asked Moomba as to whether the rejected bid came from the club itself or a press clipping as that is important to distinguish for obvious reasons.

Moomba does have a tendency of contradicting himself from time to time but to call it dishonesty well I call it a memory fade combined with a quick need to attempt to correct someone and sometimes you end up correcting yourself.

It's kind of pointless...Wigley's recommendation to Pearce pre-dates Lowe's quotes by at least 3 months...in those ensuing three months Walcott made his debut for the Southampton first team and made an instant impact...

It's ludicrous for Moomba to even bother trying to argue then point when our exchange was based Moomba saying that at the time that Wigley recommended him to Pearce, Southampton had already rejected a bid from Chelsea for "double that"...when in November he quite clearly states that he had had no contact from anyone regarding the player.

It's like trying to watch a worm wriggle off a hook...