MCFC U-18's

[waspish]

Nah I think they just expect to have a debut when the time is right. Not necessarily now. When you've earned it, like all the best young players in the world do. That doesn't happen really at clubs like Chelsea and City, and if it does its probably means a 5 min sub appearance once.

Yeah read your other post above you put the point across very well and Your probably right. Think if we can win a major trophy this season Pep might be more inclined to give Foden and Diaz more game time, big pressure this season on all our players and manager to win a major trophy. What would be great is our second option players to be from our youth team Foden and Diaz have some big competition in front of them, wonder if we will actually loan them out next season for 1st teams experience?

 

[twosips]

Yeah read your other post above you put the point across very well and Your probably right. Think if we can win a major trophy this season Pep might be more inclined to give Foden and Diaz more game time, big pressure this season on all our players and manager to win a major trophy. What would be great is our second option players to be from our youth team Foden and Diaz have some big competition in front of them, wonder if we will actually loan them out next season for 1st teams experience?

Thing is, I don't blame Pep, but I also don't blame the young lads either. The culture we've created over here is a very damaging one for young talent and there's no easy fix unless someone actually has the balls to do something bold. Cos what you've said there is basically 'if the time is right for the club, and everything is rosy, then maybe they'll get a chance'....they've got every right to be thinking 'but what about when it's right for me? Not just the club?' It's their careers after all. If the time isn't right for the club, they could never get that chance despite scoring 40 goals a season for the EDS, and that has happened for many young footballers across the u23s in the PL.

It's a head-scratcher, but many people have been saying for 3 years now that if we don't show signs of a real pathway into the first team, we'll start to lose some young lads....and it's now happened with two of the most promising young lads in England. Sancho and Duncan. It happened with Campbell too who is also excellent. We have to sort this. There's only way really - prove it with Foden, Brahim, maybe Muric, Nmecha or Smith. Anyone.

 

[squirtyflower]

And 16 is a great age to think 'will i be getting a chance to play football by the time I'm 18', which is only a year and a half way. Bear in mind most high, high level footballers are playing football at 18 latest.

I think it's a very narrow-minded view to say they have no belief in themselves. It's the exact opposite in some cases. They have extreme belief in themselves, jsut don't believe in the club. Would I say you had no belief in yourself if you left your job for career prospects somewhere else? Imagine you saw all your mates and colleagues being told for years that if they worked hard, ticked all the boxes, improved their performances then they were inline for a promotion...but it never happened, for any of them, ever. Would you sit wilfully on your arse hoping for a miracle or would you be proactive and go somewhere else to learn more things? Is that unambitious? Is it fuck. You're saying that cos they're leaving the club you support.

Brahim Diaz is 18 now and arguably one of the brightest young players in world football, coveted by everyone, but he's already starting to look like he's set for the 'fuck off to various clubs on loan for 3 years' route as there is simply no chance for him to get more than a couple of sub appearances. It really, really pains me, cos he's clearly immensely talented as he showed in preseason/in countless youth games, but he's never gonna get the chances he needs to develop apart from some scatty loans? If I was him I'd just fuck off permanently and make my way up from a smaller club. It's a shame, so I really don't blame the kids for starting to have their heads turned.




You're totally right, there isn't many, but that's a very recent phenomenon, and it isn't a good thing. There isn't many young English lads at 20 either, never mind 18. You can't use that as proof that they're being impatient, as that's actually the reason why they are getting worried. The Premier League is totally fucking awful at using young English lads. It's a highly publicised problem, one that many discuss often. Clubs just have too much money and don't bother developing and instead sign loads of players instead. City and Chelsea are sadly two of the worst at this. They also, ironically, have the best talent.

I'm a lifelong City fan. Immensely proud and confident in my abilities too, but if I was a young lad at City i'd be tempted to stay there until I was 16, assess the options, see if there is any precedent for young lads getting a chance (their currently isn't, for whatever the reason) and then move to a club where I think I could actually be playing if there was no clear pathway.

And I think you are wrong about what I think.

When I was a kid I applied to go to university, the first person from my family to do so. Applied to a top one from a state school. Due to an error was interviewed with someone else who came from a grammar school which meant i was given a ridiculously high offer.
I could have slunk off and gone elsewhere, I could have said they should provide more places for scrotes like me, there should be a quota for the working class. But I didn't, I vowed to prove the ****s wrong and got in far exceeding the grades they had asked me for. I joined their little club and got the degree at the university I wanted and wasn't brow beaten by them.

It takes balls, guts and fucking hard work as well as inate ability to break into top professional football . A shame that some don't seem to have it and prefer to take the easy route.

Of course you and a couple of others think the kids are alright, I think it's more like who are you.

 

[squirtyflower]

and make your mind up, City and Chelsea are the worst for it and yet two Chelsea players started for England tonight, ironically both on loan.

 

[domalino]

So our players expect to play at 16 17 and even 18? Premier teams do not play players at that age hardly! Think it’s the media talk that’s blinding there thoughts and decisions anyway good luck to the lad like Sancho hope they have a good career in football.

They don't want games now, at 16 or 17.

But they aren't going to sign a 3 year contract which ties them down until 20 Because they know they won't get the chances at 18/19 here and a pre-season tour cameo followed up by a loan to NAC isn't how they fancy spending their early 20s.

 

[domalino]

That's 3 players city have lost that they wanted to keep in 3 years, with Tosin and Tom Dele-Bashiru convinced to stay at the last minute (seemingly through a hefty financial reward in Tosins case).

We all know that until city academy players get meaningful minutes in the side it's going to keep happening, thats the only way to stop it.

 

[domalino]

Thing is, I don't blame Pep, but I also don't blame the young lads either. The culture we've created over here is a very damaging one for young talent and there's no easy fix unless someone actually has the balls to do something bold. Cos what you've said there is basically 'if the time is right for the club, and everything is rosy, then maybe they'll get a chance'....they've got every right to be thinking 'but what about when it's right for me? Not just the club?' It's their careers after all. If the time isn't right for the club, they could never get that chance despite scoring 40 goals a season for the EDS, and that has happened for many young footballers across the u23s in the PL.

It's a head-scratcher, but many people have been saying for 3 years now that if we don't show signs of a real pathway into the first team, we'll start to lose some young lads....and it's now happened with two of the most promising young lads in England. Sancho and Duncan. It happened with Campbell too who is also excellent. We have to sort this. There's only way really - prove it with Foden, Brahim, maybe Muric, Nmecha or Smith. Anyone.

I know a great place to start - play Tosin vs. Leicester.


Seriously what is going on there? The club didn't let him go on loan last season and turned down several championship offers allegedly.

Then they fight tooth and nail to get him to stay and sign a new contract.

Then they put Mangala, a guy Pep desperately tried to get rid of in the summer, who seems like he's leaving in January, on the bench ahead of him while were linked with Mouctar Diakhaby - a 20 year old CB with half a dozen games under his belt this season.

So on the one hand we desperately want Tosin to stay and paid to make it happen.

....but we don't actually want to play him, and if Blackburn is accurate about the transfer story (he usually is) we're just going to replace him with essentially a French version of himself for £20m+.

 

[cleavers]

I'm a lifelong City fan. Immensely proud and confident in my abilities too, but if I was a young lad at City i'd be tempted to stay there until I was 16, assess the options, see if there is any precedent for young lads getting a chance (their currently isn't, for whatever the reason) and then move to a club where I think I could actually be playing if there was no clear pathway.

That almost advocates young lads (or their representatives) using our club to get the best possible coaching and education, then leaving to get a game elsewhere, its almost as bad as them not seeing a "path to the first team", because they are basically using us to get to someone else's first team.

They need to have some patience, it's not impossible for them to get there, but if at 16/17/18 they are not in the first team squad, its hardly a surprise, sadly its typical of the current "I want everything today" society we live in.

I think we'll see a different attitude from Phil Foden, because he want's to be a first team blue for obvious reasons, hopefully we'll see the same from other young lads who have club connections too.

 

[squirtyflower]

That almost advocates young lads (or their representatives) using our club to get the best possible coaching and education, then leaving to get a game elsewhere, its almost as bad as them not seeing a "path to the first team", because they are basically using us to get to someone else's first team.

They need to have some patience, it's not impossible for them to get there, but if at 16/17/18 they are not in the first team squad, its hardly a surprise, sadly its typical of the current "I want everything today" society we live in.

I think we'll see a different attitude from Phil Foden, because he want's to be a first team blue for obvious reasons, hopefully we'll see the same from other young lads who have club connections too.

Angus Gunn just been called up to the England senior squad, but there's no plan for our kids and none make it.

 

[Grob]

It comes from a lack of belief in the pathway to get a chance.

And that's a fact, not speculation. That's the exact reason he's left.

Can't argue with that, the worst thing will be if one of them ends up playing in a side that is regularly beating us (Campbell, Sancho, Duncan). Could you imagine. That reason for leaving typifys years of packing the squad with Fernando, Navas, etc. The club should have been padding out the squad with HG players for years.

Bizarre he came back for pre-season, went on the academy tour, was even banging them in still in the last friendly before the start of the season, then he just left. Seems a bit sudden