MEN - United have "embarrassed" City over academy graduates

[Neville Kneville]

Disagree on the first line, I think they are as reluctant to throw on youngsters aa we are.

Agree completely on the rest, whuch is why i find our lack of trust so annoying. Case in point, Maffeo versus Manure away. And what did we do? Discard him as soon as some 30-35 year old was available in the squad.

What people are forgetting re the rags last season, is they flirted several 'big' players out of the team & indeed out of the club.

No chance Pellegrini would have jettisoned DePay, Schweinstiger & Schneiderlin, halfway through the season, he would have played all of them.

Re Maffeo, tbh, although I agree he could have played more, he did actually get on & play, which is pretty much all I'm asking for.

He did fine at the swamp, a bit iffy in a more attacking role, but he definitely didn't cost us any damage, at all. Imo, there are about 8-10 others, who could all have played more, in the last 4-5 years & also would not have caused any problem, maybe even improved us, as under Pellegrini, last two seasons, we were unfit & lazy.

 

[salfordbluetrue]

There are currently two clubs where a young player has less chance of coming through than anywhere else imo, City & Chelsea. And ironically, the two clubs have more talent on their books than most others.

I hope in City's case, it will soon change as the manager, prior to this, has always been someone who would prefer to use talent if it's there. In his first season, he's not been too bad imo, as it's been difficult. The young players he should have been able to include, have already been mismanaged by Pellegrini & have gone down rather than up, in quality.

know where you are coming from but. the city chelsea method is the only viable answer to the spanish b teams, and you only have to look at Ieanacho and Garcia progression ` even if they were given more game time` as compared to Roberts and Unal who are both better because they played almost every game at a lower level

 

[chesterguy]

I think the point being made is United have inferior youth players an inferior academy and yet more players get game time In there first team rather than at City where a vast majority of the forum seem to believe that by playing youngsters this will undermine the first team which has not been the case across the road.

The point though is did they improve the team. Have they been a long term solution or were they just a short term fix being put in the shop window and then sold?

I know how the media spun it as the next great English hope etc but the reality was that these were poor players who happened to come from the United academy. But the reality is that they were not good enough and were sold to mid table teams and that is after 20 years or so of United being one of the best teams in England

I dont think it will undermine the first team playing a youngster or 2 but does it help that player if at the end of the day as he will be sold if he isnt deemed good enough for us long term. How does playing a few times for us benefit the player or us as a team especially if by playing that academy prospect a top player is left out. If our youth players are deemed not good enough they will be found clubs at the appropriate level such as Emyr Huws Reece Wabara without the need for them being played in a few token games ala Wilson at United

 

[Neville Kneville]

know where you are coming from but. the city chelsea method is the only viable answer to the spanish b teams, and you only have to look at Ieanacho and Garcia progression ` even if they were given more game time` as compared to Roberts and Unal who are both better because they played almost every game at a lower level

True enough but imo both Kelechi & Garcia should have played more, but that's not the problem.

The point I'm making, Kelechi if he was an academy player, would be a good example of a player who has had first team chances, not a bad example. If he then went out on loan, the manager didn't fancy him whatever, no problem, he has played. (My main concern with him is not letting a potential star go).

When kids in the 2nd team are flying, on top form, they should get into the first team picture & in most cases, onto the pitch at some point. If they then don't rip it up, fine, send them back, send them on loan, whatever. But plenty of our kids over recent seasons, have had moments when they are right on it & what makes it even worse, the first team lacking a bit of edge & in need of a spark & they haven't even been considered.

At 99% of clubs, they would have been.

We have been getting that badly wrong & it paints the club in a bad light & leaves us open to attack from our enemies.

 

[salfordbluetrue]

True enough but imo both Kelechi & Garcia should have played more, but that's not the problem.

The point I'm making, Kelechi if he was an academy player, would be a good example of a player who has had first team chances, not a bad example. If he then went out on loan, the manager didn't fancy him whatever, no problem, he has played. (My main concern with him is not letting a potential star go).

When kids in the 2nd team are flying, on top form, they should get into the first team picture & in most cases, onto the pitch at some point. If they then don't rip it up, fine, send them back, send them on loan, whatever. But plenty of our kids over recent seasons, have had moments when they are right on it & what makes it even worse, the first team lacking a bit of edge & in need of a spark & they haven't even been considered.

At 99% of clubs, they would have been.

We have been getting that badly wrong & it paints the club in a bad light & leaves us open to attack from our enemies.

we are not most teams, are youth is exactly that youth ,
we play with one of the youngest sides in the league and most are not strong enough for the league, and when they are they will most likely go on loan for experience, so it will be a while before we see them
as for the rags `i am sure someone will tell me if i am wrong`but did they not field a 35 year old the last time their youth won anything?

 

[franksinatra]

The point though is did they improve the team. Have they been a long term solution or were they just a short term fix being put in the shop window and then sold?

I know how the media spun it as the next great English hope etc but the reality was that these were poor players who happened to come from the United academy. But the reality is that they were not good enough and were sold to mid table teams and that is after 20 years or so of United being one of the best teams in England

I dont think it will undermine the first team playing a youngster or 2 but does it help that player if at the end of the day as he will be sold if he isnt deemed good enough for us long term. How does playing a few times for us benefit the player or us as a team especially if by playing that academy prospect a top player is left out. If our youth players are deemed not good enough they will be found clubs at the appropriate level such as Emyr Huws Reece Wabara without the need for them being played in a few token games ala Wilson at United

Well I'm not sure that's the case. Players like Rashford,Lingard have been instrumental in Uniteds success over the last couple of years and has improved the squad no end.

And that has happened historically with players like Johnny Evans, Wes Brown etc who although found their level later on contributed to Uniteds success whilst there.

As for the reality there are loads of players in our squad not good enough for our level but we have paid decent money for them and they will have to be moved on. No different to playing kids who eventually need moving on and also gives a statement to any parents they will be given an opportunity. Also as we have seen with players like Rashford, Kane they might just play at the level and highlight they are more than good enough.

 

[Neville Kneville]

we are not most teams, are youth is exactly that youth ,
we play with one of the youngest sides in the league and most are not strong enough for the league, and when they are they will most likely go on loan for experience, so it will be a while before we see them
as for the rags `i am sure someone will tell me if i am wrong`but did they not field a 35 year old the last time their youth won anything?

I have no interest in what they win, our academy is better, irrespective. But Giggs has a fair argument when he suggests that the current reserve league is not fit for purpose & that older players should also play in it, to pass on their experience to team mates & provide stiffer test in opposition. It's an argument many agree with.

Without that older help,their team would not win it though.

It's fair to say that we now have a young kids team who are mostly not quite ready. A few are still good enough to be tested though & should be.

But we have moved out most of the kids who should have been tested in the first team in recent seasons & most will never come back. They were old enough & good enough imo.

 

[twosips]

True enough but imo both Kelechi & Garcia should have played more, but that's not the problem.

The point I'm making, Kelechi if he was an academy player, would be a good example of a player who has had first team chances, not a bad example. If he then went out on loan, the manager didn't fancy him whatever, no problem, he has played. (My main concern with him is not letting a potential star go).

When kids in the 2nd team are flying, on top form, they should get into the first team picture & in most cases, onto the pitch at some point. If they then don't rip it up, fine, send them back, send them on loan, whatever. But plenty of our kids over recent seasons, have had moments when they are right on it & what makes it even worse, the first team lacking a bit of edge & in need of a spark & they haven't even been considered.

At 99% of clubs, they would have been.

We have been getting that badly wrong & it paints the club in a bad light & leaves us open to attack from our enemies.

Indeed and we're already starting to see disenchanted kids in our academy. Tyrese Campbell refused to sign a scholarship and is already Stoke's best u23 player. He's alleged to be in the first team squad next season and he's only 17 now. Not sure if it'll happen, but he left cos he saw no way into the first team at all with the likes of Jesus, Kelechi and Aguero ahead of him and a bunch of players like Barker and co tearing up youth international football, the u18s league and FA Cup and getting fuck all game time, losing form and being farmed out to nowhere. Sancho is apparently seriously considering RB Leipzig's offer to move away too. We're in danger of having an immense amount of talent that could just use us as a finishing school and fuck off somewhere else at 16/17 and gift another club a gem. We're also in danger of just not signing these kids in the first place.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Indeed and we're already starting to see disenchanted kids in our academy. Tyrese Campbell refused to sign a scholarship and is already Stoke's best u23 player. He's alleged to be in the first team squad next season and he's only 17 now. Not sure if it'll happen, but he left cos he saw no way into the first team at all with the likes of Jesus, Kelechi and Aguero ahead of him and a bunch of players like Barker and co tearing up youth international football, the u18s league and FA Cup and getting fuck all game time, losing form and being farmed out to nowhere. Sancho is apparently seriously considering RB Leipzig's offer to move away too. We're in danger of having an immense amount of talent that could just use us as a finishing school and fuck off somewhere else at 16/17 and gift another club a gem. We're also in danger of just not signing these kids in the first place.

It's human nature.

So many complacent people on here, just accepting everything will be alright & we just do nothing.

I'm absolutely convinced that if the team from a few seasons ago, with Barker, Kean Bryan etc, had been given the opportunities they deserved, at the right time, we would now be fairly relaxed watching one or two of them playing first team football for City.

It has to change, quickly, or the academy will become just a set of buildings.

 

[CC1]

You said we are years behind Utd & they got all the top talent because of it.

So I'm asking you: do you think the kids Utd have used in the Premier League in the past ten years are all 'top talent' ?

I never said any of the above. I said they attracted all the youngsters without having to try. However, at no stage did I say any of them 'made' it. Indeed, very few prospects reach the standard top clubs demand - which is why rags, Chelsea etc don't play them unless it's a dead rubber. You imply scum give more youth players a chance. My argument is that when we bridge the timescale gap, we'll give youth at least the same chance as any other top club. At the moment, those players are only just reaching 16/18.