Merson writes.....

[SWP's back]

Hmmm ok, well I'll just be a numpty then and point out that a 3-2 loss is not as good as a 0-0 draw.

For example replace the 4-3 defeat with a nil nil last year and we wouldn't have had to beat spuds in the "play off game" that we ended up losing one nil.

You should really check your argument when you have Merson onside.

Shaun, that is the most illogical argument you have ever constructed. Why in particular the Utd game? Why not another game where we dropped points? You could pick any game where we narrowly lost, or two/three games we drew which we should have won. You can't single the Utd game as a game which directly affected us having to beat Spurs.

And taking 'generalisation' a side, it's your kind of attitude, 'that we would get beat 4-3 again if we set up to be less cautious than we did in the first derby game', which is the problem. You end up giving the players so many fucking things to worry about, to think about, all in the context of making sure we 'dont get beat'. I once remember Arthur Cox coming out in the press when Keegan was absent for a game, proclaiming 'if you cant win the game, make sure you dont get beat'. Oh fucking genius. But at least Cox in that sense, was thinking, of 'set the team up to try and win the game first and foremost'. Mancini at home against Utd, didnt set up honestly at all. It was a fucking cop out. And an insult to us as supporters in a game which matters to us, on and off the pitch.

He will probably do the same again tomorrow. Hope to nick a win. Yet we more than have a side capable of going there and doing a real job on them if he takes the reigns off and trusts the players. Respect Utd yes, fear them no.

FFS! I used the Utd game as we happen to be playing them tomorrow and if you read the OP, you will see that Merson stated that "losing 3-2 to Utd is better than drawing 0-0 as atleast we will have tried".

So it stands to reason that I would use our 4-3 loss there last season as an example of how a spirited loss is not actually as good as a nil all draw. What with that being the game tomorrow and the one we are talking about, especially as they dovetailed so beautifully.

But you are right - It is my fault for creating this thread and therefore giving the players cause for concern.

I do apologise and think that you should probably put the bottle down now.

 

[gio's side step]

Shaun, that is the most illogical argument you have ever constructed. Why in particular the Utd game? Why not another game where we dropped points? You could pick any game where we narrowly lost, or two/three games we drew which we should have won. You can't single the Utd game as a game which directly affected us having to beat Spurs.

And taking 'generalisation' a side, it's your kind of attitude, 'that we would get beat 4-3 again if we set up to be less cautious than we did in the first derby game', which is the problem. You end up giving the players so many fucking things to worry about, to think about, all in the context of making sure we 'dont get beat'. I once remember Arthur Cox coming out in the press when Keegan was absent for a game, proclaiming 'if you cant win the game, make sure you dont get beat'. Oh fucking genius. But at least Cox in that sense, was thinking, of 'set the team up to try and win the game first and foremost'. Mancini at home against Utd, didnt set up honestly at all. It was a fucking cop out. And an insult to us as supporters in a game which matters to us, on and off the pitch.

He will probably do the same again tomorrow. Hope to nick a win. Yet we more than have a side capable of going there and doing a real job on them if he takes the reigns off and trusts the players. Respect Utd yes, fear them no.

FFS! I used the Utd game as we happen to be playing them tomorrow and if you read the OP, you will see that Merson stated that "losing 3-2 to Utd is better than drawing 0-0 as atleast we will have tried".

So it stands to reason that I would use our 4-3 loss there last season as an example of how a spirited loss is not actually as good as a nil all draw. What with that being the game tomorrow and the one we are talking about, especially as they dovetailed so beautifully.

But you are right - It is my fault for creating this thread and therefore giving the players cause for concern.

I do apologise and think that you should probably put the bottle down now.

But there is a difference here. A spirited loss hurts yes. And ultimately means fuck all in terms of points. It might give supporters a sense of pride, or players the feeling that they left everything out there on the pitch. But yes, in reality, it's a defeat. However, there are different contexts to getting a draw. And whilst ultimately it is only 1 point, it's about the laws of average in terms of what is more likely (set up wise).

For example, one could earn a draw by being really competitive, creating an equal number of chances, posesssion being around 50/50, and everyone comes away thinking a draw was a fair result.

Then another example could be, one team goes out positively to try and win the game, has 70% posession, created 15 clear cut chances, the keeper has one of those days, and the other side nicks a draw.

Then another example could be, one side goes shitting themselves making sure its literally a stalemate, by using spoiling tactics, percentage football, and literally spends all their energy closing the space off the ball. A draw is all they ever aimed for, and a draw is all they could ever realistically hope for.

The latter, is very risky. Is cowardly, and it's not the way I want to see my football club approach this game.

You might be right, we might be somewhere in between the last scenario and the one before it, but equally, we could approach the game in a manner, where we are positive, we really click on the day, Utd feel under pressure having lost last week and dont want to lose the derby game at home, they are then looking over their shoulder, and thus they are the ones who in the end, after some real pressure from us, end up trying to either hold on for a draw, or equalise to earn a draw.

So, a draw, in reality, is not a BAD result. But going for a win, being brave, and earning the right to win, and take a draw minimum is what I believe gets rewarded more than the robbery approach

 

[forevermancity]

FFS! I used the Utd game as we happen to be playing them tomorrow and if you read the OP, you will see that Merson stated that "losing 3-2 to Utd is better than drawing 0-0 as atleast we will have tried".

So it stands to reason that I would use our 4-3 loss there last season as an example of how a spirited loss is not actually as good as a nil all draw. What with that being the game tomorrow and the one we are talking about, especially as they dovetailed so beautifully.

But you are right - It is my fault for creating this thread and therefore giving the players cause for concern.

I do apologise and think that you should probably put the bottle down now.

But there is a difference here. A spirited loss hurts yes. And ultimately means fuck all in terms of points. It might give supporters a sense of pride, or players the feeling that they left everything out there on the pitch. But yes, in reality, it's a defeat. However, there are different contexts to getting a draw. And whilst ultimately it is only 1 point, it's about the laws of average in terms of what is more likely (set up wise).

For example, one could earn a draw by being really competitive, creating an equal number of chances, posesssion being around 50/50, and everyone comes away thinking a draw was a fair result.

Then another example could be, one team goes out positively to try and win the game, has 70% posession, created 15 clear cut chances, the keeper has one of those days, and the other side nicks a draw.

Then another example could be, one side goes shitting themselves making sure its literally a stalemate, by using spoiling tactics, percentage football, and literally spends all their energy closing the space off the ball. A draw is all they ever aimed for, and a draw is all they could ever realistically hope for.

The latter, is very risky. Is cowardly, and it's not the way I want to see my football club approach this game.

You might be right, we might be somewhere in between the last scenario and the one before it, but equally, we could approach the game in a manner, where we are positive, we really click on the day, Utd feel under pressure having lost last week and dont want to lose the derby game at home, they are then looking over their shoulder, and thus they are the ones who in the end, after some real pressure from us, end up trying to either hold on for a draw, or equalise to earn a draw.

So, a draw, in reality, is not a BAD result. But going for a win, being brave, and earning the right to win, and take a draw minimum is what I believe gets rewarded more than the robbery approach

your wasting your breath on some of these mate!

 

[Tricky Dickys Right Foot Shot]

Yeah I'd well prefer 0 points instead of 1. Sorry to dissapoint Paul but we don't play football to entertain neutral fans but to do as well as possibly we can.

 

[forevermancity]

Yeah I'd well prefer 0 points instead of 1. Sorry to dissapoint Paul but we don't play football to entertain neutral fans but to do as well as possibly we can.

aarrgghhhhhh

that isnt his point!

would you prefer to stick it up the rags tommorow, show them no respect and go for the win?

or defend like fuck, have one shot off target, 60% of the game played in our half and play for a nil nil

he wants the 1st option, and so do i

 

[law74]

Yeah I'd well prefer 0 points instead of 1. Sorry to dissapoint Paul but we don't play football to entertain neutral fans but to do as well as possibly we can.

aarrgghhhhhh

that isnt his point!

would you prefer to stick it up the rags tommorow, show them no respect and go for the win?

or defend like fuck, have one shot off target, 60% of the game played in our half and play for a nil nil

he wants the 1st option, and so do i

AND ME.
If we go there and get our pass and move game and play at a high tempo then we will destroy the worst rag side in 20+ years.
If we try and sit back and play posession football we will get dicked 2 or three nil.

 

[Tricky Dickys Right Foot Shot]

Yeah I'd well prefer 0 points instead of 1. Sorry to dissapoint Paul but we don't play football to entertain neutral fans but to do as well as possibly we can.

aarrgghhhhhh

that isnt his point!

would you prefer to stick it up the rags tommorow, show them no respect and go for the win?

or defend like fuck, have one shot off target, 60% of the game played in our half and play for a nil nil

he wants the 1st option, and so do i

Yeah I know that, but his statement indicates "even if they come away losing 3-2 at least they'd have tried. That's got to be better than drawing 0-0 for the umpteenth time this season" clearly as a neutral he just wants to see an entertaining game, bet after the 4-3 he thought "what a game, at least City tried" whats the point in trying if your just gonna gain fuck all.

I'd rather "do" then "try" and beat em ;o)

 

[Mancio]

i would just not lose.

at least as much as every fucking other teams would going at old trafford.

bayern , real madrid , inter , milan , barca , not any of this teams would be so arrogant to think to go at rags home and take the game, none of them.

which is the last team who has gone there and take the game ?

 

[forevermancity]

aarrgghhhhhh

that isnt his point!

would you prefer to stick it up the rags tommorow, show them no respect and go for the win?

or defend like fuck, have one shot off target, 60% of the game played in our half and play for a nil nil

he wants the 1st option, and so do i

Yeah I know that, but his statement indicates "even if they come away losing 3-2 at least they'd have tried. That's got to be better than drawing 0-0 for the umpteenth time this season" clearly as a neutral he just wants to see an entertaining game, bet after the 4-3 he thought "what a game, at least City tried" whats the point in trying if your just gonna gain fuck all.

I'd rather "do" then "try" and beat em ;o)

i know what your saying mate, but look at our team and tell me we arent better than playing for a draw?

look at the teams that have beaten or drawn against the rags, they have gone at them, not sat back, the teams who try to counter utd get bent over!

 

[smithy167]

Yeah I know that, but his statement indicates "even if they come away losing 3-2 at least they'd have tried. That's got to be better than drawing 0-0 for the umpteenth time this season" clearly as a neutral he just wants to see an entertaining game, bet after the 4-3 he thought "what a game, at least City tried" whats the point in trying if your just gonna gain fuck all.

I'd rather "do" then "try" and beat em ;o)

i know what your saying mate, but look at our team and tell me we arent better than playing for a draw?

look at the teams that have beaten or drawn against the rags, they have gone at them, not sat back, the teams who try to counter utd get bent over!

You do realise the rags are at home?