A few clips of the protest surfacing in social media.
Here's one showing the challenges faced by medics. I read abit more and this clip seems to be from last year's protest.
I'm pointing out that there's bad on both sides and it's pointless posting pictures and tweets of one's sides crimes when the other side can easily post an equally bad comeback.to highlight that the cliche 'both sides are as bad as each other' is a tedious, simplistic and ignorant statement , however the intention.
I'd counter that by saying that my overall view is nuanced. I certainly don't believe that one side is completely at fault and the other is 100% right. That's reflected in many of my posts. But when people like blueonblue come out with some of the rubbish he has, then it becomes absolutist. The lower the leve lof detail, the more absolutist I tend to be. I don't think there's any inconsistency there.
And on this specific matter - the Gaza protests - I've changed my position somewhat. My initial reaction was to unconditionally blame the IDF for its typically heavy-handed reaction to the Gaza protests. But the more I've read, included completely unbiased and nuanced sources, the more I've realised the protests were a cynical PR exercise by Hamas to shore up its position vis-a-vis the PA, Egypt & its financial backers. The overwhelming majority of deaths were Hamas and Islamic Jihad members. At least 54 of the 62.
Now I still think the actions of the IDF were unnecessary in most (but not all) cases. They've allowed Hamas to take the political initiative and moral high-hround. If Israel was cleverer and more subtle in its response then they would have denied Hamas that. But Netanyahu, unlike Ismael Haniyeh, isn't an absolute leader. He has a coalition and electorate to answer to and couldn't afford to look weak. Unusually, most of the Israeli political spectrum backed him on this.
You're right.
That's why definitions have to handled with care. The oil rich Gulf states pay lip service to the Palestinian cause and everyone on the QT knows it.
My criticism of you is you will entertain the nuanced approach when it suits you and the absolutist when it does not.
They pay lip service because the reality is they would have to fly in the face of western support for Israel and that is not in their interests. Arguments on human rights ignorance are pointless because it is a fact that only really the west even observes human rights. Do you think the Saudi's, UAE, Qatar, Iran, Syria etc are going to put a fight for human rights before their own interests?
It is only because it is Israel and only because of western involvement that people are even bothered to criticize it. We had multiple people defending Russia for example recently yet no-one is bothered anymore that Russia today holds illegal territory at the edge of Europe, hell, we are even heading to a world cup there.
If we were so bothered about the humanatarian plight of the Palestinians then why are we also not bothered about basically the entire continent of Africa or the things going on in Asia as well? The reason people aren't is because it is 'different' and those situations don't involve a state and a relationship between the west that people for whatever reason just do not like.
The great duplicity and irony is some on here go mental at the Israeli's for defending themselves but they are the same people effectively defending Assad chemical bombing his own people for the 65th time.
No we should give it the focus it merits with it being the 25th most serious conflict currently going on in the world.And there's Pep and his yellow ribbon working for a gangster profiting off slave Labour and all those people belly aching about Trump when Putin is far worse and here we are In Manchester going on about 22 dead when drone strikes blah, blah, blah and genital mutilation and Pakistani rape gangs and chemical weapons and one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist and your wrong and I'm right and my shit don't stink....More on page 42.
So we should just let the Israeli's get on with it, after all it's "a quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing."
No we should give it the focus it merits with it being the 25th most serious conflict currently going on in the world.
No we should give it the focus it merits with it being the 25th most serious conflict currently going on in the world.
Israel may have won militarily but it has a long way to go in the PR war and as long as the Palestinians continue to live under Israeli control, it is a hollow victory as it is losing out on having good relations with many countries in the world with which it could build up mutually beneficial trade arrangements. The Israeli right wing see it as a price worth paying to keep their base on board, but in the long term there are no winners. The other party to benefit in the short term from this is Hamas which maintains its credibility because of the conflict. In the long term, a peace deal that agrees borders and solves the Jerusalem problem helps everyone except the extremists on both sides.I'm not particularly vexed by this, not because I don't care, but because I don't care enough. The Palestinian cause is utterly screwed, they are without any allies that give a damn about their plight and the forces they face too powerful. It's unlikely that Israel will become a "normal" nation state in the foreseeable future, but in all the ways that matter she's won, she won a long time ago.
Arguments on human rights ignorance are pointless because it is a fact that only really the west even observes human rights.