Middle East Conflict (merged)

[KS55]

Yes I do.

you can attack me as much as you like, it’s very much par for the course on this forum and debates like this where you don’t join the groupthink but the poster was correct in my opinion.

What does it mean, then. Putin was elected by a democratic vote as much as Hamas was. Is Russia a democracy?
Democracy is not defined by a democratic vote but by the rule of law, not something which Israel has ever aspired to. Your version of a democratic vote (ie what Hamas held) is very wobbly.
PS I am not attacking anybody, rather trying to find out what is the basis for your argument. You have made a massive assumption about my position, which I have not mentioned!

 

[inbetween]

What does it mean, then. Putin was elected by a democratic vote as much as Hamas was. Is Russia a democracy?
Democracy is not defined by a democratic vote but by the rule of law, not something which Israel has ever aspired to. Your version of a democratic vote (ie what Hamas held) is very wobbly.
PS I am not attacking anybody, rather trying to find out what is the basis for your argument. You have made a massive assumption about my position, which I have not mentioned!

Any poll would show that the Palestinians (in Gaza at least) are mostly in favour of Hamas which for the reference of others is designated as a terrorist organisation within the UK and is an organisation itself accused of war crimes.

When we talk of this position on war crimes you only have to look at how the UN views Hamas. This is the vote on whether to condemn the actions of Hamas or not historically and note the position of peace merchants such as South Africa. To find out who condemns the actions of Israel then essentially just flip this in reverse.

There is zero moral authority on this issue, least of all democratic countries.

 

[KS55]

Any poll would show that the Palestinians (in Gaza at least) are mostly in favour of Hamas which for the reference of others is designated as a terrorist organisation within the UK and is an organisation itself accused of war crimes.

When we talk of this position on war crimes you only have to look at how the UN views Hamas. This is the vote on whether to condemn the actions of Hamas or not historically and note the position of peace merchants such as South Africa. To find out who condemns the actions of Israel then essentially just flip this in reverse.

There is zero moral authority on this issue, least of all democratic countries.

Why are you telling me this? I already know. Despite a massive assumption by someone, I have never expressed, nor would I, support for Hamas. I have, however, been massively critical of Israel for many years, long before the current conflict. My criticism stems from their abject failure to observe the rule of law since 1945/48. It is counter productive and will prolong the conflict indefinitely. Those Palestinians who wave their house keys at the border do have a point. The confiscation/ theft of Arab property in Israel will never be righted in Israeli courts. The victims of forcible occupation of their property also lose their vote. What compensation did the people of the Moroccan quarter get when their home were bulldozed at three days notice? I could go on, but you get the point: Israeli is pissing in the wind asking Arabs to obey a set of laws which they themselves ignore at will.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Democracy is not defined by a democratic vote but by the rule of law, not something which Israel has ever aspired to.

I’ll state that you have made quite a statement there!

A comedian might ask “Then, why so many Jewish lawyers?”!!!

A Jew might ask, if Israel was a person, that would be libelous, so as a country does it then just become run of the mill anti-semitism?

 

[KS55]

I’ll state that you have made quite a statement there!

A comedian might ask “Then, why so many Jewish lawyers?”!!!

A Jew might ask, if Israel was a person, that would be libelous, so as a country does it then just become run of the mill anti-semitism?

I gave a few examples at post 13633. I could ask you which UN resolution has any Israeli gov supported or acted upon.
I don’t understand your last sentence, please explain. I hope you are not mixing up Jews with the Israeli gov. My highly orthodox Jewish step mother, god rest her soul, would have your guts for garters. She was no fan of Israeli policy, and taught me well. She believed there would be no peace or security for Israel until it recognised the rights and aspirations of all its inhabitants.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I gave a few examples at post 13633. I could ask you which UN resolution has any Israeli gov supported or acted upon.

My apologies for not seeing/responding to that post.

I don’t understand your last sentence, please explain. I hope you are not mixing up Jews with the Israeli gov. My highly orthodox Jewish step mother, god rest her soul, would have your guts for garters. She was no fan of Israeli policy, and taught me well. She believed there would be no peace or security for Israel until it recognised the rights and aspirations of all its inhabitants.

So, Israeli govt not to be mixed up with the Jewish people who elect it or who serve in it?! Got it!

 

[KS55]

My apologies for not seeing/responding to that post.



So, Israeli govt not to be mixed up with the Jewish people who elect it or who serve in it?! Got it!

You should know the difference. As the previous Chief Rabbi wrote: “it is not anti semitic to criticise the Israeli gov.” You might as well say that criticising the British gov is anti British, or criticising the Nigerian gov is racist. You are more intelligent than to make that mistake, surely?
PS. President Trumps gov was awful. Is that anti- American?
PPS. Putin agrees with you and puts people in jail as traitors if they criticise his policy.
Come on, this is basic stuff. Taking the particular as exemplifying the general is just illogical.
Got it?!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

You should know the difference. As the previous Chief Rabbi wrote: “it is not anti semitic to criticise the Israeli gov.” You might as well say that criticising the British gov is anti British, or criticising the Nigerian gov is racist. You are more intelligent than to make that mistake, surely?
PS. President Trumps gov was awful. Is that anti- American?

I believed I was equating it to a person, as I outlined.

My apologies if I overstepped and certainly had no intention of dishonoring your dear departed stepmother.

Busy morning juggling chainsaws and I should just stay away from incendiary topics without full focus.

 

[KS55]

I believed I was equating it to a person, as I outlined.

My apologies if I overstepped and certainly had no intention of dishonoring your dear departed stepmother.

Busy morning juggling chainsaws and I should just stay away from incendiary topics without full focus.

Next: Why A2 benefits US school children. Put that chainsaw down!

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

My gran used to say they need a big bomb dropping on the whole region. My lefty younger self used to argue with her about it. And stupidly thats exactly where the Israelis are taking this conflict. Maybe not this generation but it will happen soon.