Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

[Mr Fraser]

That's not an argument. "Please don't say this because it's distasteful" is not a retort to an extremely valid point that if Israel wanted to genocide Palestine then it has the tools to do so in about a day.

Yes but IDF prefers inflicting the fear and terror. Additionally starvation takes more than a day

 

[Damocles]

But a slow genocide is fine?

Yes, that is absolutely definitely the point I was making. Excellent spot.

 

[M16 citeh]

*sigh*

Ok we'll do this again. Here's a list of (respected) people and organisations who do say it's a genocide. This collection of experts includes holocaust survivors, scholars, Israeli historians, doctors who have been in Gaza, and more:

Amnesty International - "Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza" Link

UN Special Committee - "UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war" Link

Amos Goldberg, professor of Holocaust History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem - "Yes, it is genocide" Link

Daniel Blatman, Israeli Historian - "This is precisely what genocide looks like" Link

Doctors Against Genocide - "Canadian Doctors Returning from Gaza Call for an End to Canada’s Complicity in Genocide" Link

Human Rights Watch - "Israel’s Crime of Extermination, Acts of Genocide in Gaza" Link

Renowned genocide and Holocaust researchers from six countries (including Israel) - ""Can I name someone whose work I respect who does not think it is genocide? No, there is no counterargument that takes into account all the evidence," Israeli researcher Raz Segal told NRC." Link

Stephen Kapos, Holocaust survivor - "We Jews who survived all this pain, killings, humiliation and destruction are against the use of the memory of the Holocaust by the Government of Israel as cover and justification for the ongoing genocide against the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank" Link

EU’s former top diplomat Josep Borrell - "We’re facing the largest ethnic cleansing operation since the end of the second world war in order to create a splendid holiday destination once all the millions of tonnes of rubble have been cleared from Gaza and the Palestinians have died or gone away" Link

More holocaust survivors - "We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people." Link

There are databases logging the genocidal rhetoric here . Some examples:
Yoav Gallant (Minister of Defense) -“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly"

Isaac Herzog (President) - "“It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, it’s absolutely not true." Also ""There are no innocent civilians in Gaza""

It was actually being debated as to whether this is a genocide as early as October 2023 - 800+ Legal Scholars - "As scholars and practitioners of international law, conflict studies, and genocide studies, we are compelled to sound the alarm about the possibility of the crime of genocide being perpetrated by Israeli forces against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip" Link

Let's have a little reminder as to what israel has done and what we've lived through since then:

Murdered 20,000 kids, with total official deaths around 55,000 people, but with Doctors on the ground and the Lancet saying that this number is actually in the hundreds of thousands
Bombing schools
Bombing hospitals
Bombing places of worship
Dropping White phosphorus on civilians
Gang raping prisoners
Protesting for the right to rape prisoners
Having prisoners rapists on tv
Singing songs about raping and killing Palestinian women and children
Shooting toddlers multiple times in the head
Dressing up in clothes from families they've just killed
Running over people in tanks and bulldozers
Burning people alive
Burning olive trees
Pouring concrete down wells
Poisoning animals
Attacking disabled people with dogs
Chasing after 4 year olds and breaking their arms and legs
Using bulldozers to block ambulances
Shooting diplomats and irish peacekeepers
Banning journalists
Executing 15 red crescent workers, burying them with bulldozers, lying that they were a threat but forgetting to take a red. Crescent workers phone which then proves that e earthing that you lied about was indeed bullshit
Using 80 year old man as a human shield with a bomb tied around his neck and then then killing him and his wife anyway
Killing 11 year old influencers
Shooting old women walking the street with their 5 year old grandson whilst waving a white flag
Genocide tourism (Boat rides and viewing points to watch the bombs drop on Gaza)
Referring to palestinian babies as terrorists
Blocking aid trucks
Killing a doctors 9 children
Leaving babies in incubators to die
"Where's daddy" - AI that targets palestinians families at their homes and murders them
Creating largest cohort of child amputees in the world
Turning distribution of food into squid game
Bulldozing cemeteries
Flying drones playing the sound of children crying to lure people out and then shooting them
Starving babies to death because they wont allow baby formula in
Creating a new acronym - "WCNSF (Wounded Child, No Surviving Family). Thousands, possibly tens of thousands of children fall into this category

To say "but if there was intent it'd be ten times that number", after all this, is an absolutely fucking disgusting thing to say.

People need to realise what we're dealing with here. This isn't some petty internet argument, we are living through the first ever live streamed genocide. How people behave and what they did during this genocide will be remembered forever. People's children will ask them what they did during this period.

The Israel lobby ensures that our media and politicians are complicit in this genocide. We as a country provide assistance and intelligence to the israeli forces to commit daily war crimes, which makes the UK active participants in this genocide.

Those who had the bollocks to speak up during this genocide, like Bob Vylan, will be remembered kindly. The cowards who have stayed silent throughout this genocide, despite knowing that we're supposed to speak up against this, and that never again was supposed to mean never again for everyone, will have to live with the shame for the rest of their lives, and everyone will remember what cowards they were. As for those who are still denying this genocide (and effectively continuing to enable it), well, we'll see how that pans out for you.

Get him told lad

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Not deliberate intent? That makes no sense at all. All intent is deliberate, no? Unless I'm missing something?

It's already been established that a whole population doesn't need to be killed for the threshold of genocide to be reached. Pockets of populations over lengthy periods of time, targeted because of their ethnicity, still qualifies as genocide. That's what the IDF have been doing. It's been corroborated by authorities that matter on this issue; as addressed by that sensational post a few pages along.

But they're not being targeted simply because of their ethnicity are they? They're being targeted because their government launched a terror attack, massacred festival-goers, took hostages, have refused to give those hostages back and still refuse to cease hostilities. It's a war, and it's a war where the combatants hide behind civilians and civilian infrastructures.

In WWII we firebombed cities like Hamburg and dropped nuclear weapons on Japan, killing tens on tens of thousands of innocent civilians. But we didn't do it simply because we hated and wanted to wipe out the German or Japanese races did we? We did it because weat war with them and to intimidate the governments and populace of those countries.

 

[Auden night mail]

But they're not being targeted simply because of their ethnicity are they? They're being targeted because their government launched a terror attack, massacred festival-goers, took hostages, have refused to give those hostages back and still refuse to cease hostilities. It's a war, and it's a war where the combatants hide behind civilians and civilian infrastructures.

In WWII we firebombed cities like Hamburg and dropped nuclear weapons on Japan, killing tens on tens of thousands of innocent civilians. But we didn't do it simply because we hated and wanted to wipe out the German or Japanese races did we? We did it because weat war with them and to intimidate the governments and populace of those countries.

It sounds like you're saying the IDF are justified to kill 56000 people because its a conflict, is that right?

 

[Vic]

That's not an argument. "Please don't say this because it's distasteful" is not a retort to an extremely valid point that if Israel wanted to genocide Palestine then it has the tools to do so in about a day.

Yeah, but that would be harder for the complicit nations to ignore than doing genocide slowly.

 

[Vic]

But they're not being targeted simply because of their ethnicity are they? They're being targeted because their government launched a terror attack, massacred festival-goers, took hostages, have refused to give those hostages back and still refuse to cease hostilities. It's a war, and it's a war where the combatants hide behind civilians and civilian infrastructures.

In WWII we firebombed cities like Hamburg and dropped nuclear weapons on Japan, killing tens on tens of thousands of innocent civilians. But we didn't do it simply because we hated and wanted to wipe out the German or Japanese races did we? We did it because weat war with them and to intimidate the governments and populace of those countries.

Israel ended the last ceasefire, to keep the support of Smotrich and Ben Gvir who, admit it, don't see much wrong with chants of "Death to Arabs".

At Jerusalem Flag March, chants of ‘Death to Arabs’ and assaults on Palestinians

Still, contentious event ends without major incident as thousands of religious nationalists participate; some attack Palestinians and reporters, sing 'May your village burn'

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Damocles]

But they're not being targeted simply because of their ethnicity are they? They're being targeted because their government launched a terror attack, massacred festival-goers, took hostages, have refused to give those hostages back and still refuse to cease hostilities. It's a war, and it's a war where the combatants hide behind civilians and civilian infrastructures.

In WWII we firebombed cities like Hamburg and dropped nuclear weapons on Japan, killing tens on tens of thousands of innocent civilians. But we didn't do it simply because we hated and wanted to wipe out the German or Japanese races did we? We did it because weat war with them and to intimidate the governments and populace of those countries.

This is going to sound extremely flippant, and I apologise in advance for this, but I think some people are struggling with the concept that the Western Government ideals of "an ethical war" is bullshit that has never actually existed. In wars, people are incredibly cruel and evil to each other. This isn't new nor should it be unexpected. This is all wars. Heroic soldiers on exist in pulp fiction and fond memories. Our heroic soldier is their depraved invader, etc.

My view on Israel is that they're not genociding Palestinians, they're fighting a Total War against Hamas. If a Hamas commander stands in a building with 30 Palestinians in it in an area that Israel has said to evacuate, then they'll drop a bomb and kill those 30 to get that 1 guy and I think they'll feel perfectly justified with it. I think many of their actions are heinous and like all rogue Governments, this one will get its comeuppance eventually.

I thought their bombing of Iran was illegal, purposely inflamed an already tense situation and was an unprovoked attack on a sovereign state. It was warmongering basically and the absolute fucking cheek to claim it as self defence made me have a bit of a moment about Israel.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

The video explains we fly from here to Cyprus with ??? Then Israeli jets go immediately from Cyprus on sorties to Gaza. It’s clearly seen on flight radar 24 the flight pathway. Like a bomb/parts run for Israeli jets.

Intelligence collecting around the coast of Ukraine regularly, our spy plane flies daily over Gaza passing intelligence to ?? Israel

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

The video explains we fly from here to Cyprus with ??? Then Israeli jets go immediately from Cyprus on sorties to Gaza. It’s clearly seen on flight radar 24 the flight pathway. Like a bomb/parts run for Israeli jets.

Intelligence collecting around the coast of Ukraine regularly, our spy plane flies daily over Gaza passing intelligence to ?? Israel

I hear there's a storm slowly brewing there as well.

 

[oldius]

The Australian courts have just declared that criticising the actions of the Israeli state, and of Zionism, is not antisemitic. This has been a long-held belief of many, and many of those holding that belief have been silenced, so it is an important step, at least in Australia.

 

[Vic]

The Australian courts have just declared that criticising the actions of the Israeli state, and of Zionism, is not antisemitic. This has been a long-held belief of many, and many of those holding that belief have been silenced, so it is an important step, at least in Australia.

Well, that's what the IHRA examples of antisemitism say:
"Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic." That's qualified (or amplified) by another example: "Applying double standards by requiring of it (the state of Israel) a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation". No-one expects or demands a democratic nation to commit war crimes.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The recent No. 1 song in the Israeli charts explicitly calling for the death of named Arab celebrities who are nowhere near the front line, have never killed children, or medics in ambulances and are not part of an organisation responsible for bombing civilians in their own homes and have or starving millions of people, then shooting them on many occasions while they are waiting for food aid.

Is that not whipping up hatred?

That song can could only be No. 1 i lots of people buy or download it so that is not just one person's opinion is it?

Rap song calling for death of Dua Lipa and Bella Hadid ‘tops charts in Israel’

‘Every dog will get what’s coming to them’, the artists apparently rap

www.independent.co.uk

And that's the problem. There are significant elements on both sides who spew the language of hate, and do more than that, while I suspect a majority would rather live peacefully.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

This is going to sound extremely flippant, and I apologise in advance for this, but I think some people are struggling with the concept that the Western Government ideals of "an ethical war" is bullshit that has never actually existed. In wars, people are incredibly cruel and evil to each other. This isn't new nor should it be unexpected. This is all wars. Heroic soldiers on exist in pulp fiction and fond memories. Our heroic soldier is their depraved invader, etc.

My view on Israel is that they're not genociding Palestinians, they're fighting a Total War against Hamas. If a Hamas commander stands in a building with 30 Palestinians in it in an area that Israel has said to evacuate, then they'll drop a bomb and kill those 30 to get that 1 guy and I think they'll feel perfectly justified with it. I think many of their actions are heinous and like all rogue Governments, this one will get its comeuppance eventually.

I thought their bombing of Iran was illegal, purposely inflamed an already tense situation and was an unprovoked attack on a sovereign state. It was warmongering basically and the absolute fucking cheek to claim it as self defence made me have a bit of a moment about Israel.

It's not flippant. Cynical maybe but I agree.

 

[Manchester33]

And that's the problem. There are significant elements on both sides who spew the language of hate, and do more than that, while I suspect a majority would rather live peacefully.

Yes, there are significant elements on both sides as you say.

But only one side is living in pure terror, being starved to death in an open air prison.

The ‘silent majority’ in Israel that you’re alluding to are not doing enough to ensure life is peaceful for innocent Palestinians. In my opinion that makes them somewhat complicit and I believe history will judge them accordingly.

 

[BertM19]

Yes, there are significant elements on both sides as you say.

But only one side is living in pure terror, being starved to death in an open air prison.

The ‘silent majority’ in Israel that you’re alluding to are not doing enough to ensure life is peaceful for innocent Palestinians. In my opinion that makes them somewhat complicit and I believe history will judge them accordingly.

Poll: 82% of Israelis want to expel Palestinians from Gaza; 47% want to kill every man, woman, child - Geopolitical Economy Report https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2025/05/30/poll-israelis-expel-palestinians-gaza-genocide/

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Yes, there are significant elements on both sides as you say.

But only one side is living in pure terror, being starved to death in an open air prison.

The ‘silent majority’ in Israel that you’re alluding to are not doing enough to ensure life is peaceful for innocent Palestinians. In my opinion that makes them somewhat complicit and I believe history will judge them accordingly.

Now turn that round and apply it to the Palestinians who enabled Hamas, who kept them in that prison.

 

[BlueTG]

This is going to sound extremely flippant, and I apologise in advance for this, but I think some people are struggling with the concept that the Western Government ideals of "an ethical war" is bullshit that has never actually existed. In wars, people are incredibly cruel and evil to each other. This isn't new nor should it be unexpected. This is all wars. Heroic soldiers on exist in pulp fiction and fond memories. Our heroic soldier is their depraved invader, etc.

My view on Israel is that they're not genociding Palestinians, they're fighting a Total War against Hamas. If a Hamas commander stands in a building with 30 Palestinians in it in an area that Israel has said to evacuate, then they'll drop a bomb and kill those 30 to get that 1 guy and I think they'll feel perfectly justified with it. I think many of their actions are heinous and like all rogue Governments, this one will get its comeuppance eventually.

I thought their bombing of Iran was illegal, purposely inflamed an already tense situation and was an unprovoked attack on a sovereign state. It was warmongering basically and the absolute fucking cheek to claim it as self defence made me have a bit of a moment about Israel.

That ‘if’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting where reality is concerned.

 

[Manchester33]

Now turn that round and apply it to the Palestinians who enabled Hamas, who kept them in that prison.

Are you saying they deserve what Israel is inflicting upon them? Children being starved to death?

Genocide is genocide PB.

It’s wrong and should be opposed.

 

[Mr Fraser]

But they're not being targeted simply because of their ethnicity are they? They're being targeted because their government launched a terror attack, massacred festival-goers, took hostages, have refused to give those hostages back and still refuse to cease hostilities. It's a war, and it's a war where the combatants hide behind civilians and civilian infrastructures.

In WWII we firebombed cities like Hamburg and dropped nuclear weapons on Japan, killing tens on tens of thousands of innocent civilians. But we didn't do it simply because we hated and wanted to wipe out the German or Japanese races did we? We did it because weat war with them and to intimidate the governments and populace of those countries.

Israel holds 3600 Palestinians without trial (so called administrative detention)
IDF claim to be able to identify Hamas officials within metres due to their intelligence but had no information about 7 October- really!!. I understand you are adept at finance, research, etc. How much has Netanyahu funded Hamas historically. Meanwhile genocide continues in gaza and ethnic cleansing in the west bank goes on at pace.

Children, civilians, medical professionals are being targeted because? Please clarify