Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
What I find quite amazing is that Mossad seem to know exactly where the Hezbollah and Iranian big wigs live, when they are at home and where they meet yet they had zero idea that hundreds of Hamas terrorists on motorbikes were about to attack them !
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Plus no idea in all this time where the hostages were being held even killing two of their own trying to give themselves up, Gaza is just a strip of land and any hope of finding the remaining hostages alive under all that rubble is probably Zero.:(
This indiscriminate bombing is only good news for the bomb market.
What has happened to covert operations taking out individuals who present a threat/terrorism to our or their country.
I’ve no faith the current attack on Iran will bring about a change of regime or finally put an end to the nuclear threat.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think the points you make are all valid, but don’t change my view on the overwhelming undesirability of a theocratic death cult regime possessing nuclear weapons, which is presumably, based on what you have posted, not a view you share.

I would feel exactly the same about it being in the hands of US Evangelists.

I think there is a greater risk of a religious leader using a nuclear weapon for theological reasons than a political leader using it for strategic reasons. It looks like you don’t.

You may be correct, but I don’t think it’s worth the risk fwiw.
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That would be evangelists who expect the return of the Messiah, the end of life on earth, and two thirds of Jews to die. Voting for the man with the most nuclear weapons.
 
Sir Richard Dearlove on the TV this morning, when pushed on where he believes the government should position itself on this conflict stated that the removal of this Iranian regime " would strongly be in our national interest" .
I would imagine our intelligence services are providing the same advice to Starmer. He should act accordingly.
For me it is not only in our national interest , it is in the best interest of all the people in the Middle East and the majority of the long suffering people of Iran. As one poster said on here earlier today the vast majority of the people of all the countries concerned just want to live a normal life in peace. That prospect of that improves enormously with the end of the Iranian theocracy and their support for Hamas and Hezbollah.
I understand emotions are high because of Israeli actions in Gaza but this is not the same, the Israeli's should be supported, if they need support from the RAF we should give it to them.
 
Hertzblue said:
Sir Richard Dearlove on the TV this morning, when pushed on where he believes the government should position itself on this conflict stated that the removal of this Iranian regime " would strongly be in our national interest" .
I would imagine our intelligence services are providing the same advice to Starmer. He should act accordingly.
For me it is not only in our national interest , it is in the best interest of all the people in the Middle East and the majority of the long suffering people of Iran. As one poster said on here earlier today the vast majority of the people of all the countries concerned just want to live a normal life in peace. That prospect of that improves enormously with the end of the Iranian theocracy and their support for Hamas and Hezbollah.
I understand emotions are high because of Israeli actions in Gaza but this is not the same, the Israeli's should be supported, if they need support from the RAF we should give it to them.
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Nice bit of early 2000's neo-consevative/ liberal interventionist nostalgia there. Pretty ironic coming from someone who spends an inordinate amount of time moaning about migration flows from the very same countries where this doctrine has been imposed in the past.
 
Hertzblue said:
Sir Richard Dearlove on the TV this morning, when pushed on where he believes the government should position itself on this conflict stated that the removal of this Iranian regime " would strongly be in our national interest" .
I would imagine our intelligence services are providing the same advice to Starmer. He should act accordingly.
For me it is not only in our national interest , it is in the best interest of all the people in the Middle East and the majority of the long suffering people of Iran. As one poster said on here earlier today the vast majority of the people of all the countries concerned just want to live a normal life in peace. That prospect of that improves enormously with the end of the Iranian theocracy and their support for Hamas and Hezbollah.
I understand emotions are high because of Israeli actions in Gaza but this is not the same, the Israeli's should be supported, if they need support from the RAF we should give it to them.
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Someone had to think another Iraq-style regime change in the region with another half million dead would be a good idea.

An excuse to post again this clip from one of my favourite films about an astronaut who never made it to space with NASA but is trying to do it himself.

 
Hertzblue said:
Sir Richard Dearlove on the TV this morning, when pushed on where he believes the government should position itself on this conflict stated that the removal of this Iranian regime " would strongly be in our national interest" .
I would imagine our intelligence services are providing the same advice to Starmer. He should act accordingly.
For me it is not only in our national interest , it is in the best interest of all the people in the Middle East and the majority of the long suffering people of Iran. As one poster said on here earlier today the vast majority of the people of all the countries concerned just want to live a normal life in peace. That prospect of that improves enormously with the end of the Iranian theocracy and their support for Hamas and Hezbollah.
I understand emotions are high because of Israeli actions in Gaza but this is not the same, the Israeli's should be supported, if they need support from the RAF we should give it to them.
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Have you learnt nothing from two Iraq wars, Afghanistan, Libya, British involvement in the whole fucking fiasco leaving behind trails of dead and Isis and other extremists coming to the fore in the power vacuum.
 
Postman Pep said:
Nice bit of early 2000's neo-consevative/ liberal interventionist nostalgia there. Pretty ironic coming from someone who spends an inordinate amount of time moaning about migration flows from the very same countries where this doctrine has been imposed in the past.
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Ticking a few boxes isn't he.
 
Hertzblue said:
Sir Richard Dearlove on the TV this morning, when pushed on where he believes the government should position itself on this conflict stated that the removal of this Iranian regime " would strongly be in our national interest" .
I would imagine our intelligence services are providing the same advice to Starmer. He should act accordingly.
For me it is not only in our national interest , it is in the best interest of all the people in the Middle East and the majority of the long suffering people of Iran. As one poster said on here earlier today the vast majority of the people of all the countries concerned just want to live a normal life in peace. That prospect of that improves enormously with the end of the Iranian theocracy and their support for Hamas and Hezbollah.
I understand emotions are high because of Israeli actions in Gaza but this is not the same, the Israeli's should be supported, if they need support from the RAF we should give it to them.
Click to expand...
A much simpler and more likely successful operation would be to have regime change in Tel Aviv, convert Israel into a non Jewish state, invite all Palestinians back to their homes, have a truth and reconciliation process, equal rights for all races, religions etc And set an example to the world.

Dreamland? Maybe.

OK you're right let's turn Iran to rubble, kill millions and create an Iran where they hate Israel even more.
 
This is going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion with a ton of WELL WHAT ABOUT opinions in response. I acknowledge that. The whole situation is broken.

I worry about the Jews in Europe. Jews are not Zionists or Israelis. But the outrage is palpable and the more Israel aggressively attacks others under the veneer of self defence then the more sentiment will turn.

Israel's actions in the last few months towards Gaza and now Iran have done more to hurt the Jewish people than any historical action that I can recall. The moment that a Mancunian or a New Yorkian or a Shanghaisian becomes "a Jew" then we've lost 70 years of progress.

This is a bad situation. This is a bad situation and we'll be lucky to make it out of here alive.
 
I think the argument around the history of regime change is a strong one as it has an appalling track record in the region, but the prospect of any boots on the ground is vanishingly small so there are distinctions as it would by necessity require more input from the indigenous population than previously. Also, the demographics, infrastructure and education levels today in Iran are very different to Iraq twenty odd years ago or Libya fifteen years ago, so there would be less chance of societal collapse.

I think the reality is the prospect of forcing regime change in Iran is very slight in any event, but it wouldn’t necessarily follow that what succeeded it would be worse, and could conceivably be better. Nobody actually knows though, which I guess is a reason not to aspire to it. It’s a huge risk, that’s for sure, and not one I’d be comfortable being cavalier with as it could go catastrophically wrong and encourage Israel to be even bigger cunts, lamentably.

The whole region is a fucking mess.
 
Damocles said:
This is going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion with a ton of WELL WHAT ABOUT opinions in response. I acknowledge that. The whole situation is broken.

I worry about the Jews in Europe. Jews are not Zionists or Israelis. But the outrage is palpable and the more Israel aggressively attacks others under the veneer of self defence then the more sentiment will turn.

Israel's actions in the last few months towards Gaza and now Iran have done more to hurt the Jewish people than any historical action that I can recall. The moment that a Mancunian or a New Yorkian or a Shanghaisian becomes "a Jew" then we've lost 70 years of progress.

This is a bad situation. This is a bad situation and we'll be lucky to make it out of here alive.
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Very good post and were I Jewish I'd be seriously pissed off with the Zionists.

European governments and the US really need to spell it out that what Israel is doing has nothing to do with worldwide Jewry.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think the argument around the history of regime change is a strong one as it has an appalling track record in the region, but the prospect of any boots on the ground is vanishingly small so there are distinctions as it would by necessity require more input from the indigenous population than previously. Also, the demographics, infrastructure and education levels today in Iran are very different to Iraq twenty odd years ago or Libya fifteen years ago, so there would be less chance of societal collapse.

I think the reality is the prospect of forcing regime change in Iran is very slight in any event, but it wouldn’t necessarily follow that what succeeded it would be worse, and could conceivably be better. Nobody actually knows though, which I guess is a reason not to aspire to it. It’s a huge risk, that’s for sure, and not one I’d be comfortable being cavalier with as it could go catastrophically wrong and encourage Israel to be even bigger cunts, lamentably.

The whole region is a fucking mess.
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Yep

IMG_20250615_175659.jpg
 
Damocles said:
I worry about the Jews in Europe. Jews are not Zionists or Israelis.
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I agree and I do too BUT you cannot see the shit Jake Wallis-Simons and others associated with the JC and the actions of people like Tracy-Ann Oberman and Maureen Lipman have to say you can see that Zionists exist amongst the Jewish population hiding there in plain sight
 
robbieh said:
A much simpler and more likely successful operation would be to have regime change in Tel Aviv, convert Israel into a non Jewish state, invite all Palestinians back to their homes, have a truth and reconciliation process, equal rights for all races, religions etc And set an example to the world.

Dreamland? Maybe.

OK you're right let's turn Iran to rubble, kill millions and create an Iran where they hate Israel even more.
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I didn't say anything about direct intervention on Iranian territory. The change will hopefully come from within.
What is your alternative ? Let them continue towards a nuclear weapon?
As Starmer is learning when real decisions have to be made there isnt much room for virtue signalling and often the choice is the least worst option.
 
Hertzblue said:
I didn't say anything about direct intervention on Iranian territory. The change will hopefully come from within.
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I mean which is it? What are you actually advocating for here? The Liberal interventionist sweet spot?
Hertzblue said:
What is your alternative ? Let them continue towards a nuclear weapon?
As Starmer is learning when real decisions have to be made there isnt much room for virtue signalling and often the choice is the least worst option.
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Physician heal thyself
 
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