Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

metalblue said:
Terrorism? Hyperbole at its finest, it might be many things from brilliant to stupid and illegal but terrorism? Fuck me sideways.
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We've just charged 2 people for spray painting a fuckin plane as a terriost attack.
The Americans unlawfully have entered another country and bombed fuck out of parts of it. It's a war crime. Iran have every right to retaliate.
 
BobKowalski said:
If State A attacks State B using its resources, then State B is likely to retaliate within the parameters of its own means and resources. There is precious little moral high ground for either side to claim.

Perhaps the moral of the story is don’t attack in the first place, but rather seek to address any issues via diplomacy and negotiations. Which Iran was in the middle of doing (twice) until the Israelis and then the Yanks started lobbing missiles at them.
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So let’s say they bring down a passenger jet, according to Al Jazeera they have form (Lockerbie). You’d be sitting here saying it’s ok they are only playing the game according to their parameters? Fly a jet in to an office building? Bomb on the US subway? All the sorts of things “sleeper cells” do.

Iran isn’t some innocent misunderstood nation hell bent on peace.
 
Iran is in the middle east. It will therefore be interested in and participating in what goes on there.
The US is thousands of miles away and yet it has bases all over the middle east. It also funds and arms a newish state in the area that has very little in common with the middle east. Tel Aviv is more Miami than Cairo.

Iran has been attacked both by the local bully and then by the world's bully.

Most people around the world can see it for exactly what it is.
 
The blue phantom said:
We've just charged 2 people for spray painting a fuckin plane as a terriost attack.
The Americans unlawfully have entered another country and bombed fuck out of parts of it. It's a war crime. Iran have every right to retaliate.
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I don’t disagree that calling PA a terrorist organisation is questionable to say the least.

You may not like it but it does not cross the threshold of being a war crime by the mere act of bombing another country - it has to deliberately and knowingly target civilians. What Israel is doing to Gaza is, I allege, multiple war crimes.
 
Postman Pep said:
To repeat so was El Baradei's assessment. Guess who also agrees with him. The current chief of the IAEA.

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Did you watch the video and have you read the conclusions of the IAEA board of governors?

Could a nuclear bomb be built at rapid pace with the material that Iran has accumulated? Absolutely yes, that doesn't mean that it's happening however Iran is no longer submitting to compliance monitoring so it's impossible to know whether they are progressing their efforts or not, that is what the IAEA has concluded.

Iran has threatened Israel with total destruction so with this new information it therefore makes absolute sense that Israel supported by the US has conducted these strikes. It wasn't to destroy the material, it was to destroy their capability to go further to enrich those materials, especially given it is now impossible to monitor what they're doing.

Let's remember for a second that this is a country whose economy is in the toilet and 30% of the population is in outright poverty. Answer me one simple question. What is Iran doing with highly enriched Uranium which can only be used within a nuclear weapon if it has no intention of acquiring nuclear weapons?

If Iran disengaged its nuclear production and submitted properly to monitoring in accordance with the JCPOA then nothing would of happened. Instead they'd rather goto war with Israel and that's because war with Israel and the destruction of Israel is the regimes ideological goal. Obtaining nuclear weapons is one potential part of that goal.

It's quite clear that the Iranians have ill-intentions and unfortunately for them that is what led them to receive a B2 stealth bomber armed with 30,000lb bombs up their arse.
 
metalblue said:
So let’s say they bring down a passenger jet, according to Al Jazeera they have form (Lockerbie). You’d be sitting here saying it’s ok they are only playing the game according to their parameters? Fly a jet in to an office building? Bomb on the US subway? All the sorts of things “sleeper cells” do.

Iran isn’t some innocent misunderstood nation hell bent on peace.
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You do know the US shot down a passenger jet months before Lockerbie.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
metalblue said:
Since when have facts had any use round here when the rabble can unleash their spiel at their favourite enemy?
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Well, it might be a fact that they are enriching uranium as that paper suggests, but nothing in there mentions weapons grade uranium and the director of the national intelligence agency said no evidence of weapons development ( until Trump got her to 'correct herself') , as did high ranking members of the congressional intelligence committee say no evidence has been shown to prove weapon development.

At most that paper says Enriching Uranium is happening and it was concerning.

From my view, they might well have been ( probably were ) making weapons grade uranium. just pointing out that enriching uranium that could be used in a nuclear reactor isn't cast iron proof. as someone pointed out on this thread, why hide the centrifuges under a mountain if your not trying to hide something. but then by the same note. they have been attacked before for the same so might just be a natural reaction.
 
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I can't believe that there's folk who think the Americans are doing the world a favour. They are a country who can't keep their nose out of anything, they are at their happiest when their bombs/missiles are killing folk around the world. Horrible bastards, Republicans & Democrats too.
 
grunge said:
Well, it might be a fact that they are enriching uranium as that paper suggests, but nothing in there mentions weapons grade uranium and the director of the national intelligence agency said no evidence of weapons development ( until Trump got her to 'correct herself') , as did high ranking members of the congressional intelligence committee say no evidence has been shown to prove weapon development.

At most that paper says Enriching Uranium is happening and it was concerning.

From my view, they might well have been ( probably were ) making weapons grade uranium. just point out that enriching uranium that could be used in a nuclear reactor isn't cast iron proof. as someone pointed out on this thread, why hide the centrifuges under a mountain if your not trying to hide something. but then by the same note. they have been attacked before for the same so might just be a natural reaction.
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I appreciate the thoughtful balanced reply.

Trump’s constant reactivity and verbalising his every thought certainly hasn’t helped the situation.

If Iran weren’t so belligerent I’d have sympathy with their desire, strategically it would be rational, given Israel have them (allegedly) - and that’s a scary thought. Far better neither have them, would be good if no one had them, and they were removed all together … with one kept for any stray life killing asteroids.

I mean who really needs a bomb that does that much damage and can wipe the planet out?
 
The blue phantom said:
I can't believe that there's folk who think the Americans are doing the world a favour. They are a country who can't keep their nose out of anything, they are at their happiest when their bombs/missiles are killing folk around the world. Horrible bastards, Republicans & Democrats too.
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It's not good for business buying lots of missiles and not using them.
 
grunge said:
Well, it might be a fact that they are enriching uranium as that paper suggests, but nothing in there mentions weapons grade uranium and the director of the national intelligence agency said no evidence of weapons development ( until Trump got her to 'correct herself') , as did high ranking members of the congressional intelligence committee say no evidence has been shown to prove weapon development.

At most that paper says Enriching Uranium is happening and it was concerning.

From my view, they might well have been ( probably were ) making weapons grade uranium. just pointing out that enriching uranium that could be used in a nuclear reactor isn't cast iron proof. as someone pointed out on this thread, why hide the centrifuges under a mountain if your not trying to hide something. but then by the same note. they have been attacked before for the same so might just be a natural reaction.
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It isn't proof but it's no different to saying I have no plans to shoot a gun and I don't want a gun whilst simultaneously manufacturing bullets for guns. If you have no intention of doing something then why do 50% of the work towards the thing that you had no intention of doing?

Iran is now the only non-nuclear weapon armed country in the world which holds enriched nuclear materials beyond fuel grade. I wonder why? Some on here want me to believe that this is because they do not want and never wanted to acquire a nuclear weapon but then provide no other explanation... Maybe they're just hobbyists?

The problem for the Iranians is probably not the nuclear material itself anyway but rather the simple fact that they do not have the ballistic missile and guidance technology. It's questionable where they're upto and whether they'll need help with that given Israel continues to assassinate figures within Iran's science community.

Certainly the Russians would stop short of helping because Russia has significant oligarch influence in Israel and there is no reason to help except to destabilise the western axis. Significant inflow investment for example came into Israel thanks to western sanctions in Russia, Roman Abramovich even has Israeli citizenship now.
 
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inbetween said:
Please do me a favour. The assessment is based upon actual IAEA findings. Such evidence never existed for Iraq whereas the IAEA has documentary evidence that Iran possesses almost weapons grade fissile material which has no other purpose.


It says that Iran holds almost 120kg of 60% enriched U-235 and 400kg enriched to 20%. Nuclear fuel is not enriched beyond 4% so what are they doing with this material given its production comes at great expense?

37. The Agency has lost continuity of knowledge in relation to the production and current inventory of centrifuges, rotors and bellows, heavy water and UOC, which it will not be able to restore as a result of not having been able to perform JCPOA-related verification and monitoring activities for four years.

38. Iran’s decision to remove all of the Agency’s equipment previously installed in Iran for JCPOA-related surveillance and monitoring activities has also had detrimental implications for the Agency’s ability to provide assurance of the peaceful nature of Iran’s nuclear programme.

39. It has also been four years since Iran stopped provisionally applying its Additional Protocol. Therefore, throughout this period, Iran has not provided updated declarations and the Agency has not been able to conduct complementary access to any sites and other locations in Iran.

40. The significantly increased production and accumulation of high enriched uranium by Iran, the only non-nuclear weapon State to produce such nuclear material, is of serious concern.
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Do you realise that you have posted two absolutely different viewpoints?

Your first post is based on Isis-online.org and you exclaimed the purported information; information based on documents that were retrieved (purportedly stolen) by Israel and Mossab. It’s literally in Albright’s books and interview talks! Albright is the Director of Isis-online. He himself has explained over the years. He is a scientist and professional and he is the one who contested about the possibility of Iraq’s WMD, and of Iran’s abandoning of weaponised nuclear.


And in your latest post, I quoted here, is published in 2025 with NO cites and reference of isis-online and Albright’s perspective, which you posted in your first post. This document. How many times did it mention about weaponised nuclear? Once.

Read page 11, it stated here

“The significantly increased production and accumulation of high enriched uranium by Iran, the only non-nuclear weapon State, to produce such nuclear material, is of serious concern”

Have you been informed of how Iran decided to increase their enriched uranium? Because Trump 2018 abandoned the Iranian Nuclear Program. Which is why your document that you referred to mentions of 2019 as the earliest that Iran became more restrictive of their project.

To weaponise HE Uranium is to reach 90%. Iran stopped at 60%. If US reactivated the Iran Nuclear Program as how it was during Obama time, Iran may revert to how they did before 2018, which was 3000 inspections per year 10 a day close monitoring and measure by JCPOA in all of Iran’s nuclear program.

During the period when Iran’s nuclear program were inspected 3000 times a year, how many times have Israel’s project been inspected? 0. Not 0 in a year, but 0 since 1965.
 
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inbetween said:
It isn't proof but it's no different to saying I have no plans to shoot a gun and I don't want a gun whilst simultaneously manufacturing bullets for guns. If you have no intention of doing something then why do 50% of the work towards the thing that you had no intention of doing?

Iran is now the only non-nuclear weapon armed country in the world which holds enriched nuclear materials beyond fuel grade. I wonder why? Some on here want me to believe that this is because they do not want and never wanted to acquire a nuclear weapon but then provide no other explanation... Maybe they're just hobbyists?

The problem for the Iranians is probably not the nuclear material itself anyway but rather the simple fact that they do not have the ballistic missile and guidance technology. It's questionable where they're upto and whether they'll need help with that given Israel continues to assassinate figures within Iran's science community.

Certainly the Russians would stop short of helping because Russia has significant oligarch influence in Israel and there is no reason to help except to destabilise the western axis. Significant inflow investment for example came into Israel thanks to western sanctions in Russia, Roman Abramovich even has Israeli citizenship now.
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Not when those "bullets" have another perfectly valid use tho.

A better analogy for me would be a plane, They could be developing a plane to fly from A to B. But then they could also use that plane to drop bombs. 2 very valid use cases but when there is no evidence that they are developing a bomb to drop. the 1st step of developing the plane might be perfectly innocent. Right now we know they are developing a plane.
 
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