Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Postman Pep said:
Somebody mentioned the phrase 'mowing the grass' last night. I think this is the stage where they have carte blanche to torch the lot and build something new. Give it a few years and you'll be seeing tweets from UK politicians on sponsored trips taking selfies from the beaches of Gaza.
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Damocles said:
That's not an argument. "Please don't say this because it's distasteful" is not a retort to an extremely valid point that if Israel wanted to genocide Palestine then it has the tools to do so in about a day.
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Classic example of strawman this.

Even though Israel has weaponry capable of devastating destruction, there are multiple reasons genocide could not realistically happen “in about a day. Pointing to their milatary capabilities overlooks the complexity of modern conflicts and the meaning of genocide. While Israel possesses overwhelming military superiority, that does not mean the systematic eradication of an entire people could be carried out swiftly or without enormous global consequences.

A move of that scale would immediately trigger global condemnation, political isolation, sanctions, and possibly military intervention. Israel is deeply integrated with Western allies, so any such act would have profound consequences, limiting its political feasibility. If Israel has adopted a policy of genocide it would have to be a sustained effort over time, while maintaining it's support from the west. It would need a way to deny it ever took place. Recent historical genocides (e.g., Rwanda, the Holocaust) took months or years even with intent and planning, because wiping out an entire population involves more than having the firepower.
 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
The birth rate in Gaza is around 28 per thousand per year. It's 21 months since the carnage started so we're looking at 49 per thousand over that period. The population of Gaza is just over 2m so that's approximately 100k births in that time.

If we take the Gaza Health Ministry figures as accurate at around 55k (and many of those will be Hamas operatives, so military casualties) the population is still growing.
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You're absolutely off your rocker....

You're using entirely fabricated stats (based on 'peace time' birth rates) to justify genocide. Are you not aware that hundreds of thousands have left Gaza? Do you honestly think the birth rate from the previous 60 years will be matched over the last 2 years? What about infant mortality rates - I bet you believe they're similar too, right?

If this were the other way round and Israelis were being killed in the tens of thousands every month, you'd be calling it what it is.
 
Manchester33 said:
It blows my mind that so many people can look genocide in the face and not only be ok with it, but defend it. Utterly sickening.
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Obviously some people think you have to be killing millions before it qualifies.
Personally I don't use the word genocide as it gives these people an out.
For me what we are seeing is mass murder on a grand scale in contravention of the Geneva convention. Collective punishment, shooting of unarmed civilians, starvation. You name it Israel is breaking it and their entire government should be tried in the same way the Nazis were at Nuremberg.
The ultimate goal is to ethnically cleanse the whole of historic Palestine so that it becomes the Jewish state in it's entirety.
 
Manchester33 said:
You're absolutely off your rocker....

You're using entirely fabricated stats (based on 'peace time' birth rates) to justify genocide. Are you not aware that hundreds of thousands have left Gaza? Do you honestly think the birth rate from the previous 60 years will be matched over the last 2 years? What about infant mortality rates - I bet you believe they're similar too, right?

If this were the other way round and Israelis were being killed in the tens of thousands every month, you'd be calling it what it is.
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Instead of the typical frothing at the mouth emotional reaction on this subject feel free to give the facts that prove me wrong. As I said, the birth rate in 2024, when the war was at its height, was still 28 per thousand from publicly available figures.

And to answer your last point, the term 'genocide' was coined after World War 2 which saw the wholesale murder of 6m Jews and others simply for who they were. The current situation in Gaza is a war, ironically against an enemy that clearly wants to repeat the events of 1939-1945.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Instead of the typical frothing at the mouth emotional reaction on this subject feel free to give the facts that prove me wrong. As I said, the birth rate in 2024, when the war was at its height, was still 28 per thousand from publicly available figures.

And to answer your last point, the term 'genocide' was coined after World War 2 which saw the wholesale murder of 6m Jews and others simply for who they were. The current situation in Gaza is a war, ironically against an enemy that clearly wants to repeat the events of 1939-1945.
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The irony is actually the matter that the IDF are closer to repeating the events of 1939-45 than Hamas or Iran.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Instead of the typical frothing at the mouth emotional reaction on this subject feel free to give the facts that prove me wrong. As I said, the birth rate in 2024, when the war was at its height, was still 28 per thousand from publicly available figures.

And to answer your last point, the term 'genocide' was coined after World War 2 which saw the wholesale murder of 6m Jews and others simply for who they were. The current situation in Gaza is a war, ironically against an enemy that clearly wants to repeat the events of 1939-1945.
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Palestinians do not want to repeat 39/45. This is a blatant lie used to justify what Israel has been doing since 1948.
Palestinians would like to be treated as first class citizens in what after all is their land. Something Israel is never going to give them.
The facts on the ground suggest that the Palestinian people are in far more danger than Israelis.
And by the way, Ukraine Russia is a war.

This is slaughter of an imprisoned population and if you can't tell the difference more fool you.
 
A point that I think is worth making is that there doesn't need to be millions of deaths or hundreds of thousands of deaths before it can be classed as a genocide. It can be as few as 8000 according to this from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum website:

An estimated 100,000 people were killed during the conflict in Bosnia between 1992 and 1995, including the July 1995 genocide of 8,000 Bosnian Muslims from Srebrenica. Learn more about what happened and what the international community could have done to prevent it below.

www.ushmm.org

Bosnia and Herzegovina - United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

An estimated 100,000 people were killed during the conflict in Bosnia between 1992 and 1995, including the July 1995 genocide of 8,000 Bosnian Muslims from Srebrenica. Learn more about what happened and what the international community could have done to prevent it below.
www.ushmm.org

I've said it before on here but if what is currently happening in Gaza isn't genocide then it's pretty damn close to it. In any case, organisations and individuals better qualified than any of us on here are calling it genocide and the longer the killing and displacement continues, there will be ever more organisations and individuals classing it as genocide too:

 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
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A highly credible report that…
If it was couched in the same terms about City finances, you’d be absolutely coruscating about it.

‘If true’
‘Unconfirmed’
‘Unnamed sources’
‘Numbers contradicted’

Even if true, “thousands of new recruits with little to no fighting experience. The unnamed sources have pointed out that many of the new terrorist fighters are of far inferior quality, as many of them are untrained minors.”
 
dublinblue12 said:
Classic example of strawman this.

Even though Israel has weaponry capable of devastating destruction, there are multiple reasons genocide could not realistically happen “in about a day. Pointing to their milatary capabilities overlooks the complexity of modern conflicts and the meaning of genocide. While Israel possesses overwhelming military superiority, that does not mean the systematic eradication of an entire people could be carried out swiftly or without enormous global consequences.

A move of that scale would immediately trigger global condemnation, political isolation, sanctions, and possibly military intervention. Israel is deeply integrated with Western allies, so any such act would have profound consequences, limiting its political feasibility. If Israel has adopted a policy of genocide it would have to be a sustained effort over time, while maintaining it's support from the west. It would need a way to deny it ever took place. Recent historical genocides (e.g., Rwanda, the Holocaust) took months or years even with intent and planning, because wiping out an entire population involves more than having the firepower.
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So your suggestion is that Israel wouldn't commit a quick genocide due to political condemnation (amongst other things). But the thrust of many people's arguments here is that Israel is genociding people and its Western allies are ignoring it.

You can't have this both ways. And I'd argue plausible deniability for an area the size of Gaza would be a lot easier in a quick strike rather than a long drawn out process in the age of social media where everybody has a camera phone. So I'm not sure that really makes sense either.
 
Damocles said:
So your suggestion is that Israel wouldn't commit a quick genocide due to political condemnation (amongst other things). But the thrust of many people's arguments here is that Israel is genociding people and its Western allies are ignoring it.

You can't have this both ways. And I'd argue plausible deniability for an area the size of Gaza would be a lot easier in a quick strike rather than a long drawn out process in the age of social media where everybody has a camera phone. So I'm not sure that really makes sense either.
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These idiots have adopted an extreme position and are using all sorts of mental gymnastics and twisted logic to justify their fake use of the word "genocide".

All their dubious sources are of course totally reliable while any facts used to counter them are fake in their eyes.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
A highly credible report that…
If it was couched in the same terms about City finances, you’d be absolutely coruscating about it.

‘If true’
‘Unconfirmed’
‘Unnamed sources’
‘Numbers contradicted’

Even if true, “thousands of new recruits with little to no fighting experience. The unnamed sources have pointed out that many of the new terrorist fighters are of far inferior quality, as many of them are untrained minors.”
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If they've taken up arms then they're terrorists.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
These idiots have adopted an extreme position and are using all sorts of mental gymnastics and twisted logic to justify their fake use of the word "genocide".

All their dubious sources are of course totally reliable while any facts used to counter them are fake in their eyes.
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You've just starting posting on this page again after the deluge of hate and Vitriol you threw at other posters. So I take it your Ban must be up or you just left it alone. If you don't want to go along with the now 80%+ of UK residents feeling like israel is commiting Genocide that's up to you. At the end of the day they are Murdering & Slaughtering children on a daily basis. The estimates now vary from 70'000 to over 200'000 that have been massacred by the IDF.

Israel is one of if not the most EVIL states anywhere on this planet. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.
 
robbieh said:
So Israel is allowed to have an armed 'defence' force which mainly operates in occupied territory. But the Palestinians are not allowed to take up arms.

You base this right on Israeli supremacy or what?

Mandela a terrorist?
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Yes, these twats would have labelled Mandela terrorist.
 
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