Middle East Conflict

[ChicagoBlue]

Thanks for not answering the Question as to what the Palestinians should do regarding the theft of their Houses.

Answering a question (which you didn’t answer) with a question you expect me to answer is not only a poor construct, but a fool’s errand…even though I did answer the conceptual idea.

I am absolutely against the building of settlements in what have been deemed “Palestinian areas.” I find it provocative and unnecessarily so.

Again, as a general talking point in an ongoing struggle to coexist, it is a valid point. However, in a discussion of the genesis and resolution of the current conflict, it is a distraction and irrelevance.

The imperative right now is to return the hostages, stop the fighting, renunciation of the desire to exterminate the Jewish state, and a return to accepted borders. Phrases like ”from the river to the sea” and South Africa’s claims of genocide do nothing to help create that resolution…and given Iran’s current desire to “proxy poke” the west, I doubt anything will change anytime soon.

I live in hope.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

But how have you deduced the majority of innocent Palestinians want Israel removed from the map? Moreover, how have you deduced many of the innocent Jewish population of Israel want Palestine removed? You seem to be falling into the trap of "most Palestinians (and by extension Muslims) are intolerant and monomaniacal"; you're clearly an intelligent poster so it's a trap you shouldn't be falling into.

Palestinians are being used as a proxy by outside forces. The population is being sacrificed to make larger, more strategic, political goals. They are pawns in a greater struggle than their own daily struggles.

Sadly, there is nothing Israel can do about that and they have to face the person placed in front of them.

And I don't think Zionism is a flimsy oratorical tool. It's a truism of the state of Israel. When the state's leaders have coerced their entire military to stray perilously close to the boundaries of genocide, with the aim of wiping out Palestine and its people as an entity, we can categorise such actions as Zionist. It's Zionism that pervades the nation from the head down.

Jews want to live in peace in Israel. Some politicians and a small minority of the Jewish population are more radical in their beliefs. They generally do not wield great power, but they are often part of the coalitions that are a fact of Jewish politics.

Having been to Israel numerous times, and knowing a fair few Jewish people, I can only say that most Jewish people I know and have met only want some security from the constant stream of anti-Semitic vitriol that emanates from their close neighbors and have no desire to move out into the settlements in order to attempt to move borders. Indeed, the current borders are a function of defensive wars fought against those who constantly seek to both minimize and remove the Israeli state.

To be fair, I don’t know anyone living in Gaza or the West Bank, so I don’t have l any of their personal stories for comparison. However, I believe the majority of Palestinians would like to raise their families in peace and prosperity, too. As I have said, I believe they’re used as pawns. Fodder for the larger strategic goals of their masters.

 

[KPXBLN]

Palestinians are being used as a proxy by outside forces. The population is being sacrificed to make larger, more strategic, political goals. They are pawns in a greater struggle than their own daily struggles.

Sadly, there is nothing Israel can do about that and they have to face the person placed in front of them.



Jews want to live in peace in Israel. Some politicians and a small minority of the Jewish population are more radical in their beliefs. They generally do not wield great power, but they are often part of the coalitions that are a fact of Jewish politics.

Having been to Israel numerous times, and knowing a fair few Jewish people, I can only say that most Jewish people I know and have met only want some security from the constant stream of anti-Semitic vitriol that emanates from their close neighbors and have no desire to move out into the settlements in order to attempt to move borders. Indeed, the current borders are a function of defensive wars fought against those who constantly seek to both minimize and remove the Israeli state.

To be fair, I don’t know anyone living in Gaza or the West Bank, so I don’t have l any of their personal stories for comparison. However, I believe the majority of Palestinians would like to raise their families in peace and prosperity, too. As I have said, I believe they’re used as pawns. Fodder for the larger strategic goals of their masters.

The main thing that stops Palestinians living in peace and prosperity is the illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, which has been going on for 56 years. It's not the only thing, but it's the most important. The occupation should end; western governments need to stop propping it up. Many Israelis who want peace also want the same thing. All this other stuff about 'asymmetrical warfare' and kids being hypothetically dangerous or whatever is just noise, quite possibly based on a very limited understanding of the actual situation in the region.

 

[Vic]

No, not at all. And I was talking about heightened awareness and potential threats. It’s what law enforcement are taught. Sheesh.

Open season? It’s clear you haven’t grown up around weapons!

"Law enforcement" itself sounds dehumanising (for the enforcers). Surely the most moral army in the world doesn't teach beating up any unarmed suspects, let alone a child.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

"Law enforcement" itself sounds dehumanising (for the enforcers). Surely the most moral army in the world doesn't teach beating up any unarmed suspects, let alone a child.

I hear the shitbags teach them to kill their own unarmed, recently escaped hostages, carrying a white flag.

Dehumanised is the perfect word.

 

[inchy14]

No, I find the false equivalency a specious argument at best.

Netanyahu needs to go, because I think his personal agenda is not the agenda of the general population.

However, the notion of any, even remote, equivalency between the desires of general Jewish population of Israel and the Palestinians desire to see Israel removed from the map is nonsense.

I also find the use of the term “Zionist” to not be representative of the general population’s desire to live in peaceful coexistence with their neighbors and it is often used as an inflammatory and derogatory oratorical tool to denote some kind of zealotry.

Seeing as Hamas can’t even defend Palestine can you or anyone else explain how they could remove Israel off the map?

It’s never ever been feasible and is a shit argument for attacking Palestine.

 

[Vic]

Answering a question (which you didn’t answer) with a question you expect me to answer is not only a poor construct, but a fool’s errand…even though I did answer the conceptual idea.

I am absolutely against the building of settlements in what have been deemed “Palestinian areas.” I find it provocative and unnecessarily so.

Again, as a general talking point in an ongoing struggle to coexist, it is a valid point. However, in a discussion of the genesis and resolution of the current conflict, it is a distraction and irrelevance.

The imperative right now is to return the hostages, stop the fighting, renunciation of the desire to exterminate the Jewish state, and a return to accepted borders. Phrases like ”from the river to the sea” and South Africa’s claims of genocide do nothing to help create that resolution…and given Iran’s current desire to “proxy poke” the west, I doubt anything will change anytime soon.

I live in hope.

"Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." (Likud party platform, 1977)

Have you not been watching the right wingers wanting the ethnic cleansing of Gaza? How will that help resolve the current conflict? (Actually, they want an Israel from the river to the river - the Nile to the Euphrates.)

 

[Berts Neck]

Wow, to be honest thought you were a good poster but your recent input has been somewhat odd.

Yes the WORLD has grown up in leaps and bounds mostly due to cheap goods from communist China.I guess you are happy to accept that. But ask yourself this.In the West we have the view that our way is the right way. But in Russia, China they love their country too and are they wrong because they are different ?

NATO.. OK you as a clever man will be fully aware that Putin wished to join NATO ???

Houthis..interesting..I guess I can see why this happening to a point. Why on earth are so few countries backing this attack ? Could it be the ships are being specifically targeted rather than random ??

American isolationism..Have no idea. Has not happened in my lifetime.Likely never.Perhaps it could be calmer without you guys poking your noses into any conflict all over the world. Strange how many Europena countries aside the UK do not follow your doctrine.

Chicago..my friend ..22 miles is so different to the Pacific and Atlantic.. come on,do not be silly..Europe has and potentially will be stuck in a shit storm. When was the last time cities were bombed in the US like the UK in WW2.

What do I wish to inherit..well peace I guess..but do I think the US will bring world peace,sadly not..And in truth this conflict in the Middle East is a nightmare. We are talking about so many aspects from tribal warfare, through the useless intervention of the West in splitting regions for political/finacial gain and even trying to do the right thing with Jewish people but in the wrong way.It has not worked out well.

Finally rough with the smooth.. I feel you are wrong..almost black or white..life is grey and you can have 120 grade grit between the rough and the smooth. It is available at your local store.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

"Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." (Likud party platform, 1977)

Have you not been watching the right wingers wanting the ethnic cleansing of Gaza? How will that help resolve the current conflict? (Actually, they want an Israel from the river to the river - the Nile to the Euphrates.)

False equivalency. The currency of the day.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Seeing as Hamas can’t even defend Palestine can you or anyone else explain how they could remove Israel off the map?

It’s never ever been feasible and is a shit argument for attacking Palestine.

Terrorism, and the states that sponsor it, not a problem. Got it!