Middle East Conflict

Why shouldn't they have their own state and who are you to deny them one on the flimsy excuse that they might not be friendly to you once they have one?
Do you honestly think the Palestinians, or any other group of people in their position are just going to shut up, sit in a corner and soak up all the injustice, discrimination and violence you can throw at them?
If the Israelis let them have a state then no one could support or condone the Palestinians committing acts of violence.
However if you're going to take away their country and coop them up in a tiny bantustan, blockade them, kill their men, women and children, the vast majority of them civilians, by bombing them indiscriminately whenever you feel like it, because you can with impunity, with the highest tech weapons the world has ever known then you can understand them getting pissed off and wanting to give you a taste of your own medicine from time to time.
Is Israel murdering their women and children? You are so blind and full of hate, fed by lies that are told to you from your warm and cozy home thousands of miles away and you have no idea what is happening in the Middle East. There are 2 million Arab citizens of Israel, not even one of them is willing to give up their Israeli passport to get a Palestinian instead, or Syria and Lebanon where thousands of people are being murdered under a dictatorial regime every year. I'm trying to explain to people like you that Hamas can't be trusted. We removed the "occupation" from Gaza, and what did we get? Tens of thousands of missiles, thousands murdered. Why do you criticise Israel, why don't you say anything about Egypt? They can open the border of Gaza and give passport to the people of Gaza, make them citizens. The same goes for Jordan, they can easily annex Judea and Samaria and be responsible for the Palestinians. Nobody wants them! Their Muslim brothers do not want them! Why?

Because they know exactly what they will get. The goal of the Palestinians and their leaders is to destroy Israel, including the head of the Palestinian Authority, supposedly a diplomatic figure and the leader of the Palestinians who is supposed to be a state, he is a declared holocaust denier and himself was involved in terrorism attacks against Israelis in the past.

You don't know shit and if you care so much about the Palestinians, come visit them, live with them, I bet you never donate a cent to them. You do nothing, you not even really care about the Palestinians , you just a stupid and hypocritical anti-Semite.
 
Is Israel murdering their women and children? You are so blind and full of hate, fed by lies that are told to you from your warm and cozy home thousands of miles away and you have no idea what is happening in the Middle East. There are 2 million Arab citizens of Israel, not even one of them is willing to give up their Israeli passport to get a Palestinian instead, or Syria and Lebanon where thousands of people are being murdered under a dictatorial regime every year. I'm trying to explain to people like you that Hamas can't be trusted. We removed the "occupation" from Gaza, and what did we get? Tens of thousands of missiles, thousands murdered. Why do you criticise Israel, why don't you say anything about Egypt? They can open the border of Gaza and give passport to the people of Gaza, make them citizens. The same goes for Jordan, they can easily annex Judea and Samaria and be responsible for the Palestinians. Nobody wants them! Their Muslim brothers do not want them! Why?

Because they know exactly what they will get. The goal of the Palestinians and their leaders is to destroy Israel, including the head of the Palestinian Authority, supposedly a diplomatic figure and the leader of the Palestinians who is supposed to be a state, he is a declared holocaust denier and himself was involved in terrorism attacks against Israelis in the past.

You don't know shit and if you care so much about the Palestinians, come visit them, live with them, I bet you never donate a cent to them. You do nothing, you not even really care about the Palestinians , you just a stupid and hypocritical anti-Semite.
Your lose creadance on your arguments everytime you name call or throw out assumptions about the posters you are replying too.
 
Is Israel murdering their women and children? You are so blind and full of hate, fed by lies that are told to you from your warm and cozy home thousands of miles away and you have no idea what is happening in the Middle East. There are 2 million Arab citizens of Israel, not even one of them is willing to give up their Israeli passport to get a Palestinian instead, or Syria and Lebanon where thousands of people are being murdered under a dictatorial regime every year. I'm trying to explain to people like you that Hamas can't be trusted. We removed the "occupation" from Gaza, and what did we get? Tens of thousands of missiles, thousands murdered. Why do you criticise Israel, why don't you say anything about Egypt? They can open the border of Gaza and give passport to the people of Gaza, make them citizens. The same goes for Jordan, they can easily annex Judea and Samaria and be responsible for the Palestinians. Nobody wants them! Their Muslim brothers do not want them! Why?

Because they know exactly what they will get. The goal of the Palestinians and their leaders is to destroy Israel, including the head of the Palestinian Authority, supposedly a diplomatic figure and the leader of the Palestinians who is supposed to be a state, he is a declared holocaust denier and himself was involved in terrorism attacks against Israelis in the past.

You don't know shit and if you care so much about the Palestinians, come visit them, live with them, I bet you never donate a cent to them. You do nothing, you not even really care about the Palestinians , you just a stupid and hypocritical anti-Semite.

Wow. Just fuckin Wow.
 
Is Israel murdering their women and children? You are so blind and full of hate, fed by lies that are told to you from your warm and cozy home thousands of miles away and you have no idea what is happening in the Middle East. There are 2 million Arab citizens of Israel, not even one of them is willing to give up their Israeli passport to get a Palestinian instead, or Syria and Lebanon where thousands of people are being murdered under a dictatorial regime every year. I'm trying to explain to people like you that Hamas can't be trusted. We removed the "occupation" from Gaza, and what did we get? Tens of thousands of missiles, thousands murdered. Why do you criticise Israel, why don't you say anything about Egypt? They can open the border of Gaza and give passport to the people of Gaza, make them citizens. The same goes for Jordan, they can easily annex Judea and Samaria and be responsible for the Palestinians. Nobody wants them! Their Muslim brothers do not want them! Why?

Because they know exactly what they will get. The goal of the Palestinians and their leaders is to destroy Israel, including the head of the Palestinian Authority, supposedly a diplomatic figure and the leader of the Palestinians who is supposed to be a state, he is a declared holocaust denier and himself was involved in terrorism attacks against Israelis in the past.

You don't know shit and if you care so much about the Palestinians, come visit them, live with them, I bet you never donate a cent to them. You do nothing, you not even really care about the Palestinians , you just a stupid and hypocritical anti-Semite.
relax man, you are not making sense and are just saying racist shitty talking points..
 
Probably why many people dislike the leadership of the state of Israel.

Side note but what the fuck is it with the whataboutist twunts on this thread?

Honestly, go get yourself on Reddit and see some of Hamas’s videos and see how much you want to “whatabout” after watching them. Especially the poor young woman being passed from one truck to another with blood pouring between her legs and all over her behind. If seeing that video and the many like it doesn’t put you off ‘both side-ing’ this thread for a few hours then I’d probably say you’re a sociopath.
Well said mate.

I have friends and co workers in Israel and they’re terrified with what’s going on. My thoughts are with them.
 
Probably why many people dislike the leadership of the state of Israel.

Side note but what the fuck is it with the whataboutist twunts on this thread?

Honestly, go get yourself on Reddit and see some of Hamas’s videos and see how much you want to “whatabout” after watching them. Especially the poor young woman being passed from one truck to another with blood pouring between her legs and all over her behind. If seeing that video and the many like it doesn’t put you off ‘both side-ing’ this thread for a few hours then I’d probably say you’re a sociopath.
while this is true, with regards to both sideing, i think you have to take into consideration all the videos of the atrocities you are *not* seeing out of gaza because they happen from hellfire missiles from a jet fighter killing entire families.. no one to take videos. the end result is the same - needless death of the uninvolved.
 
History tells us that retribution will be long lasting.

And make no long-lasting difference.

Anyway, this isn't a war, is it? It's an insurgency and they are always dirty. It took an awful event to stop Americans funding the IRA and start pushing seriously for a peace settlement. I can't imagine what sort of awful event will finally get the knuckle-draggers in Israel and Palestine to come to some resolution there.
 
Are you allowed to support neither side? As far as I can tell, it's been cunts on both sides my entire life while the vast majority of people on both sides just have to live through the shit they cause. Right-wing, ultra-nationalist bigots on the Israeli side, and Islamic fanatic terrorists on the other. Not even a hint of a diplomatic solution at any point because of the people in charge on both sides.

This pretty much expresses my own view of the Palestinian- Israeli conflict.

I used to favour Israel until I read the following account of the Sabra and Chatila massacres in Robert Fisk''s book Pity The Nation: Lebanon at War. Since then I have been struggling to see where the moral high ground is for those who think that one side or the other are in possession of it.

It's pretty grim stuff so either brace yourselves or scroll down to the next post.

'What we found inside the Palestinian camp at ten o'clock on the morning of September 1982 did not quite beggar description, although it would have been easier to re-tell in the cold prose of a medical examination. There had been medical examinations before in Lebanon, but rarely on this scale and never overlooked by a regular, supposedly disciplined army. In the panic and hatred of battle, tens of thousands had been killed in this country. But these people, hundreds of them had been shot down unarmed. This was a mass killing, an incident - how easily we used the word "incident" in Lebanon - that was also an atrocity. It went beyond even what the Israelis would have in other circumstances called a terrorist activity. It was a war crime.

Jenkins and Tveit were so overwhelmed by what we found in Chatila that at first we were unable to register our own shock. Bill Foley of AP had come with us. All he could say as he walked round was "Jesus Christ" over and over again. We might have accepted evidence of a few murders; even dozens of bodies, killed in the heat of combat. Bur there were women lying in houses with their skirts torn torn up to their waists and their legs wide apart, children with their throats cut, rows of young men shot in the back after being lined up at an execution wall. There were babies - blackened babies babies because they had been slaughtered more than 24-hours earlier and their small bodies were already in a state of decomposition - tossed into rubbish heaps alongside discarded US army ration tins, Israeli army equipment and empty bottles of whiskey.

Where were the murderers? Or to use the Israelis' vocabulary, where were the "terrorists"? When we drove down to Chatila, we had seen the Israelis on the top of the apartments in the Avenue Camille Chamoun but they made no attempt to stop us. In fact, we had first been driven to the Bourj al-Barajneh camp because someone told us that there was a massacre there. All we saw was a Lebanese soldier chasing a car theif down a street. It was only when we were driving back past the entrance to Chatila that Jenkins decided to stop the car. "I don't like this", he said. "Where is everyone? What the fuck is that smell?"

Just inside the the southern entrance to the camp, there used to be a number of single-story, concrete walled houses. I had conducted many interviews in these hovels in the late 1970's. When we walked across the muddy entrance to Chatila, we found that these buildings had been dynamited to the ground. There were cartridge cases across the main road. I saw several Israeli flare canisters, still attached to their tiny parachutes. Clouds of flies moved across the rubble, raiding parties with a nose for victory.

Down a laneway to our right, no more than 50 yards from the entrance, there lay a pile of corpses. There were more than a dozen of them, young men whose arms and legs had been wrapped around each other in the agony of death. All had been shot point-blank range through the cheek, the bullet tearing away a line of flesh up to the ear and entering the brain. Some had vivid crimson or black scars down the left side of their throats. One had been castrated, his trousers torn open and a settlement of flies throbbing over his torn intestines.

The eyes of these young men were all open. The youngest was only 12 or 13 years old. They were dressed in jeans and coloured shirts, the material absurdly tight over their flesh now that their bodies had begun to bloat in the heat. They had not been robbed. On one blackened wrist a Swiss watch recorded the correct time, the second hand still ticking round uselessly, expending the last energies of its dead owner.

On the other side of the main road, up a track through the debris, we found the bodies of five women and several children. The women were middle-aged and their corpses lay draped over a pile of rubble. One lay on her back, her dress torn open and the head of a little girl emerging from behind her. The girl had short dark curly hair, her eyes were staring at us and there was a frown on her face. She was dead.

Another child lay on the roadway like a discarded doll, her white dress stained with mud and dust. She could have been no more than three years old. The back of her head had been blown away by a bullet fired into her brain. One of the women also held a tiny baby to her body. The bullet that had passed into her breast had killed the baby too. Someone had slit open the woman's stomach, cutting sideways and then upwards, perhaps trying to kill her unborn child. Her eyes were wide open, her dark face frozen in horror.

"...As we stood there, we heard a shout in Arabic from across the ruins. "They are coming back," a man was screaming, So we ran in fear towards the road. I think, in retrospect, that it was probably anger that stopped us from leaving, for we now waited near the entrance to the camp to glimpse the faces of the men who were responsible for all of this. They must have been sent in here with Israeli permission. They must have been armed by the Israelis. Their handiwork had clearly been watched - closely observed - by the Israelis who were still watching us through their field-glasses.

When does a killing become an outrage? When does an atrocity become a massacre? Or, put another way, how many killings make a massacre? Thirty? A hundred? Three hundred? When is a massacre not a massacre? When the figures are too low? Or when the massacre is carried out by Israel’s friends rather than Israel's enemies?

That, I suspected, was what this argument was about. If Syrian troops had crossed into Israel, surrounded a Kibbutz and allowed their Palestinian allies to slaughter the Jewish inhabitants, no Western news agency would waste its time afterwards arguing about whether or not it should be called a massacre.

But in Beirut, the victims were Palestinians. The guilty were certainly Christian militiamen - from which particular unit we were still unsure - but the Israelis were also guilty. If the Israelis had not taken part in the killings, they had certainly sent militia into the camp. They had trained them, given them uniforms, handed them US army rations and Israeli medical equipment. Then they had watched the murderers in the camps, they had given them military assistance - the Israeli airforce had dropped all those flares to help the men who were murdering the inhabitants of Sabra and Chatila - and they had established military liason with the murderers in the camps.'
 

Nothing will work until the illegal occupation by Israel is dealt with. It's as simple as that.
[/QUOTE]
There you go again. It's not an illegal occupation, it is called the State of Israel and the Jewish Israelis who have lived in that region for decades and were born there have every right to live there as any Palestinian. Hamas, however disagrees and calls for the extermination of every Jewish person. Note, 'Jewish', not 'Israeli'.
 
Pretty sad all these commentators they get on the radio. This Richard Kemp who was in charge of U.K. forces in Afghanistan described civilians being bombed in Gaza as collateral damage. A bloke for the “Palestinian Alliance” refused to condemn the terrorism atrocities against Jewish villagers. People leaving North London feel it’s OK to steal Palestinian land (and that’s not just Kier Starmer). If they tried it here they would get banged up.

I see some posters propose the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians as the neatest solution. No doubt these posters will be popping out for their morning walks and be handing over the keys to their houses and cars to strangers.
 

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