Middle East Conflict

inbetween said:
I honestly don't understand the argument.

Iran are not an existential threat today but only because of years of successful western sanctions and Israeli intelligence actions which have prevented Iran acquiring nuclear weapons.

If Iran did acquire nuclear weapons then do you believe that they'd use them in Israel? The rhetoric and Iranian government suggests so? At what point will you admit that Iran are a bit of a pain in the arse?

Notice we haven't spoken about anybody wanting peace, that sort of sums this up doesn't it?
Click to expand...

My only point was that the justification on here for what Israel started doing after the October attack was that Hamas was an existential threat to Israel. Which imo was bollocks then and is now. Then it became that Hamas is supplied and funded by Iran which is an existential threat to Israel, which also imo was bollocks then and is now. That's all.

But as you ask:

Russia has nuclear weapons. Do you believe they'd use them in Ukraine? The rhetoric and Russian government suggests so? It's not a great argument.
The Ayatollahs may be crazy in our eyes but I doubt they are suicidal. Any attack on Israel with nuclear weapons, or nuclear material with their signature, would be the end of them.

I fully understand that Iran are being a pain in the arse. Do I think it's because they want to eliminate Israel? I am not so sure. It seems to me it's just part of giving the "Little Satan" the occasional bloody nose as part of their broader conflict with the "Great Satan".

And about peace, my argument is that it won't happen until the US and Iran put their big boy pants on and negotiate something they each want in return for giving up something the other wants. I doubt the Iranians really care much about Israel or the Palestinians one way or the other.
 
halfcenturyup said:
My only point was that the justification on here for what Israel started doing after the October attack was that Hamas was an existential threat to Israel. Which imo was bollocks then and is now. Then it became that Hamas is supplied and funded by Iran which is an existential threat to Israel, which also imo was bollocks then and is now. That's all.

But as you ask:

Russia has nuclear weapons. Do you believe they'd use them in Ukraine? The rhetoric and Russian government suggests so? It's not a great argument.
The Ayatollahs may be crazy in our eyes but I doubt they are suicidal. Any attack on Israel with nuclear weapons, or nuclear material with their signature, would be the end of them.

I fully understand that Iran are being a pain in the arse. Do I think it's because they want to eliminate Israel? I am not so sure. It seems to me it's just part of giving the "Little Satan" the occasional bloody nose as part of their broader conflict with the "Great Satan".

And about peace, my argument is that it won't happen until the US and Iran put their big boy pants on and negotiate something they each want in return for giving up something the other wants. I doubt the Iranians really care much about Israel or the Palestinians one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately religious zealots on all sides seem to rule, there will never be peace until they all stop believing in the tooth fairy and its mates, that won’t happen until ET lands and says they populated earth in an experiment.
 
inbetween said:
I honestly don't understand the argument.

Iran are not an existential threat today but only because of years of successful western sanctions and Israeli intelligence actions which have prevented Iran acquiring nuclear weapons.

If Iran did acquire nuclear weapons then do you believe that they'd use them in Israel? The rhetoric and Iranian government suggests so? At what point will you admit that Iran are a bit of a pain in the arse?

Notice we haven't spoken about anybody wanting peace, that sort of sums this up doesn't it?
Click to expand...
If Israel did acquire nuclear weapons ... Oh wait, they've got them. Given what's happening in Gaza and the West Bank, don't they need to be deterred?

(I should make clear I'm mainly coming at this from comparison with the British argument for having a nuclear "deterrent". Thus, both sides having nuclear weapons would come under the usual argument that mutual deterrence has kept the peace in Europe for 70 years. Well, until Russia invaded Ukraine.)
 
Updated published information:

>>>>

All Ukraine children killed in the Ukraine-Russian war:
n = 633
Duration = 30 months 3 weeks

Babies (age 1-year old or less) killed in the Gaza War:
n = 743
Duration = 11 months 2 weeks
 
bluethrunthru said:
I am aware of the context but looking at what is happening Netanyahu is through the looking glass now

Click to expand...


This was from his earlier PM tenure.

FWIW, in regards to early Hitler…

In 1933, The Zionist Federation of Germany and the Nazi Germany convened together in a series of discussions, culminating into the Haavara Agreement whereby the Zionist Federation requested assistance from Nazi Germany in realising part of the British Mandate of Palestine as Israel (2nd choice was Argentina)

The Haavara Agreement was accorded and since 1936 upto 1939 Adolf Hitler supported the Haavara and the Jews moving to Palestine.

The prerequisite to Palestine was however that Britain is willing to gift part of Palestine to Zionist Federation, which as history has proven is unlikely.

Hence Jewish militias conducted a series of attacks on British soldiers in Palestine. At one point, the Zionist Federation of Germany also travelled and met the Fascist leaders of Italy to assist in stymieing the British in Palestine. This was under the Zionist Revisionist Movement of Italy who support fascism and the full colonisation of the British Mandate of Palestine and beyond Palestine (from the Euphrates river to the sea).

By 1940s, as how the Zionist Federation of Germany pressured Nazi Germany to assist in migrating to Palestine en masse, the agreement gradually simmered.

In summary, in the early 1930s the Zionist Federation of Germany were communicating with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.

On a side note, Jewish first ship that travelled European Jews to Palestine is called the ‘Tel Aviv’. On the Tel Aviv ocean ship occupied by Jew, at the ship main mast, emblazoned a large flag. The flag was the Nazi Swastika.

Edit:
The photo of the Tel Aviv for awareness is in the next post.
 
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