Middle East Conflict

Mëtal Bikër said:
Everyone on this thread seems to know a Palestinian. And since Hamas are the elected government of the Palestinians, it's kind of a moot point isn't it, to be arguing Palestinians are/are not synonymous with Hamas and what they believe? Were the ones at the protest/riot/assault Palestinians or Hamas members? Being pedantic doesn't help the debate. You know what I meant.
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Tbh ive prob had 4 or 5 conversations and the conflict brought up once or twice, they are taxi drivers, well two are. :). P..B & West Dids have informed me a lot abt the past on here with their lengthy post.

One things for sure mate, Its not going to get better is it?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Everyone on this thread seems to know a Palestinian. And since Hamas are the elected government of the Palestinians, it's kind of a moot point isn't it, to be arguing Palestinians are/are not synonymous with Hamas and what they believe? Were the ones at the protest/riot/assault Palestinians or Hamas members? Being pedantic doesn't help the debate. You know what I meant.
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Palestinians are not synonymous to Hamas. It's unfortunate that you see that. Much like how Americans who've never come out of their comfort zone see all Muslims as terrorists.

And a majority of the ones in protest were civilians, students, university graduates, lecturers, if that answers your question. You give more credit to the influence of Hamas on the Palestinian community more than Palestinians themselves.
 
The blue phantom said:
Tbh ive prob had 4 or 5 conversations and the conflict brought up once or twice, they are taxi drivers, well two are. :). P..B & West Dids have informed me a lot abt the past on here with their lengthy post.

One things for sure mate, Its not going to get better is it?
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Nope, it's not, and more tragic and pointless deaths and murders that could be avoided, but won't, because of stubborn pride.

I know about as much on the topic as the average person does, and aside from my 'union' proposal, my view is that the whole situation is futile, and that the only likely resolution will be a decisively violent one.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
If any Palestinian or anyONE, for that matter, supports Hamas, they lose mine. It has been made quite clear that most Palestinians, or those who side with Palestinians, do support Hamas, so you're going to have to help me out here... If they support Hamas, but DON'T want Israel to be wiped off the face of the planet, why are they supporting Hamas, whose aim is to do just that? And if most Palestinians support Hamas, wouldn't that mean they want Israelis to die, as per their charter, which Hamas made, thus they support? If they don't then elect a more moderate political entity to power to represent their cause!
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Wow. I can't help you out anymore than your stigmatisation of most Palestinians as Hamas sympathisers. You just already have a determined preconception of Palestinians and your view of this dynamic situation is so one dimensional and full of speculation. Read what you just typed above. You are putting 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 together.

You mentioned of not wanting to discuss about morality yet heavily question the morality of one side while ignoring the other. Isn't that hypocritical?
 
shaiomarali said:
Palestinians are not synonymous to Hamas. It's unfortunate that you see that. Much like how Americans who've never come out of their comfort zone see all Muslims as terrorists.

And a majority of the ones in protest were civilians, students, university graduates, lecturers, if that answers your question. You give more credit to the influence of Hamas on the Palestinian community more than Palestinians themselves.
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Maybe because, Hamas is chosen by them to represent them? I trust then you don't accuse the British people for the acts of Empire of centuries past, the Coalition of 2002 and the wars that resulted from it? Wouldn't it be great if people were not connected with the governments they elected to represent them?

Sadly we don't live in that sort of world, it is unfortunate but the overall world view is that a people and the government they elect are criticised in one and the same manner, and as long as Hamas continues to be elected by the Palestinians in the region, i'll unfortunately have to hold the viewpoint that they share some empathy in Hamas's murderous 'final solution' to their Israel problem. I'd like for them to elect a more diplomatic and reasonable group to address their people's struggles and search for solutions, but so far they approve of Hamas' methods.
 
shaiomarali said:
Wow. I can't help you out anymore than your stigmatisation of most Palestinians as Hamas sympathisers. You just already have a determined preconception of Palestinians and your view of this dynamic situation is so one dimensional and full of speculation. Read what you just typed above. You are putting 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 together.

You mentioned of not wanting to discuss about morality yet heavily question the morality of one side while ignoring the other. Isn't that hypocritical?
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Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip voted for Hamas to represent them, so yes I question the moral attitudes of people who would willingly choose such a group to represent them. If you happen to think that means describing all Palestinians, then that's on you. I'm merely critical of any Palestinian who voted for Hamas or anyone, for that matter, who supports Hamas.

I haven't addressed the morality of Israel yet, since you've only discussed the Palestinians and their legitimacy claim. What would you like to know about my views on Israel?
 
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Mëtal Bikër said:
Maybe because, Hamas is chosen by them to represent them? I trust then you don't accuse the British people for the acts of Empire of centuries past, the Coalition of 2002 and the wars that resulted from it? Wouldn't it be great if people were not connected with the governments they elected to represent them?

Sadly we don't live in that sort of world, it is unfortunate but the overall world view is that a people and the government they elect are criticised in one and the same manner, and as long as Hamas continues to be elected by the Palestinians in the region, i'll unfortunately have to hold the viewpoint that they share some empathy in Hamas's murderous 'final solution' to their Israel problem. I'd like for them to elect a more diplomatic and reasonable group to address their people's struggles and search for solutions, but so far they approve of Hamas' methods.
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Look at the options they have to vote for. Hamas, Fatah, IP, The Third Way. Hardly the cream of the crop considering Fatah has long been in the helm and Hamas in the eyes of the Palestinians was a chance of reform.

And how did you come up with Palestinians approving of Hamas's methods? Did you even check the exit poll results? 80% of Palestinians who voted wanted Hamas to make peace with Israel, to recognise Israel as a state, and to create a unity government to lead reform for peace. Hardly the majority opinion that you insist it to want death. If you think Hamas has absolute influence over Palestinians you are off the mark. A majority of Palestinians, who are more informed on ground level than us speculating a thousand miles away, might finally see hope in turning Hamas into a moderate party. And one of the Palestinian's hopes have already been fulfilled, a Unity government to lead a two state solution.

Edit:

Rather than trying to explain to you and you coming back with your assertions of who Palestinians are (they want destruction of Israel, they voted Hamas because they align with the destruction of Israel), might as well I give you this to read. These are complete results of the election, of Palestinians' opinion of Israel, of their justification to why they voted for Hamas, and other information that you can interpret on your own.

http://www.neareastconsulting.com/plc2006/files/nec-en-pr.pdf
 
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west didsblue said:
Seems your main problem is the concept of a state with a Jewish majority. Why is that?
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That’s not my issue at all and I do not know how you could draw such a conclusion based on what I have said. Again the Israel-apologist tries to equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. I have said many times here that the Middle East is for all the people of the Middle East. Not just Muslims and not just Arabs. You have seen me defending the rights of Christians to live in Syria. My problem is with the continued ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homeland and the ghettoisation of Gaza through policy.
 
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