Middle East Conflict

[Indaparkside]

Spot on Ricster. All this whataboutery about the past is only smoke that muddles the atrocity that is now, it always descend into this.

Every time Israel is criticised for shooting children dead, some have to come and justify why that is the case. I don't know why I even bother posting about history and legitimacy and all this nonsense because these are not reasons why that one shooter decide to pull the trigger and laugh about it all. It's psychopathic behaviour of individuals who are given license to kill.

What it has successfully done in this thread though is it has deflected an argument and made the Israel vs Palestine canon more important that the shooting of children.

The thing is certain posters will post on every topic that's brought up on this forum and they haven't got a fucking clue what there on about half the time

 

[west didsblue]

Spot on Ricster. All this whataboutery about the past is only smoke that muddles the atrocity that is now, it always descend into this.

Every time Israel is criticised for shooting children dead, some have to come and justify why that is the case. I don't know why I even bother posting about history and legitimacy and all this nonsense because these are not reasons why that one shooter decide to pull the trigger and laugh about it all. It's psychopathic behaviour of individuals who are given license to kill.

What it has successfully done in this thread though is it has deflected an argument and made the Israel vs Palestine canon more important that the shooting of children.

Hardly spot on when he makes up stories about children being kidnapped.
Then he complains about discussions about history when it’s Israel’s biggest detractors that tend to start these discussions in an attempt to delegitimise Israel’s existence.

 

[Joe Pineapple]

God some people like to live in the past. Forget all thats gone on, this thread is about now, about gow Israeli soldiers continue to kidnap children, how Israeli soldiers continue to shoot dead and injure unarmed protestors, how the Israeli soldiers are celebrating those kills on video phone.

Too many people on this thread taking the morale high ground and trying to give history lessons to show their dick is bigger.

Fucking innocent children are dying and your discussing wh owns the land or trying to argue about it.

Sickening that people on this thread think that the actions of Israeli soldiers today has anything to do with 1400 years ago!

I've limited sympathy for the dead in this most recent outbreak of mayhem.
Even with the heavily right on reporting it's clear that the Israelis are under fire from sling propelled rocks, molotovs and various other nasties intended to harm, maim and kill.
If the Israelis response was a few mortar platoons, some heavy automatic weapons and even artillery I think it could be termed disproportionate, but they've basically stuck to rifles and pretty restrained use of them too with only 50 dead. They could have easily mowed down the whole mob attacking the border.

 

[The blue phantom]

I've limited sympathy for the dead in this most recent outbreak of mayhem.
Even with the heavily right on reporting it's clear that the Israelis are under fire from sling propelled rocks, molotovs and various other nasties intended to harm, maim and kill.
If the Israelis response was a few mortar platoons, some heavy automatic weapons and even artillery I think it could be termed disproportionate, but they've basically stuck to rifles and pretty restrained use of them too with only 50 dead. They could have easily mowed down the whole mob attacking the border.

Yep. When you look at Israel's casualty figures you can see why they continue with this live fire policy. Those Palestinians must be one hell of a threat attacking that border.

Israel 1 injured Solder.
Palestine 60 dead nearly 3000 injured.

 

[inbetween]

Yep. When you look at Israel's casualty figures you can see why they continue with this live fire policy. Those Palestinians must be one hell of a threat attacking that border.

Israel 1 injured Solder.
Palestine 60 dead nearly 3000 injured.

The Israeli figures show precisely how effective their policy has been. Their sole purpose for using live fire has been to defend the border. Had a violent protest not taken place then there would be no border to defend and hence no need for force.

Take away the ability to use lethal force and it is a fact that the threat still exists and there is a greatly increased potential for a few dead Israeli citizens. From an Israeli point of view is force therefore justified to solely protect Israeli lives?

My guess is you would say no and many on this thread would say no but yet they are happy to remain ignorant and justify Palestinian violence.

When people mention the (unfair?) lack of deaths on one side and then work this into a humanitarian argument it kind of loses its weight....

 

[Vic]

The Jews were there first.
Records dating back to 300 bc.
Ottoman empire invaded in 1577.
Hence the Arab population.

I think someone was there before the Jews.

 

[Metal Biker]

You are making assumptions and suggestions as if it is that easy. You ask them to form a group that provides that purpose to give the people the option of a less aggressive option. Have you ever thought that they already might have tried for many years?

Listen to what you are saying. You are an idealist not a realist. These are people who have been oppressed for decades while you sit in your armchair and say 'look this is what you should be doing'. they need to convince you?

Get a hold of yourself. The world doesn't revolve around your opinions only.

Oh, am I not allowed to do that on a forum? Must I conform to your ideas about how the situation can be resolved?

I guess there's not much point in debating then, if I keep giving the "wrong" responses, is there.

 

[Indaparkside]

I think someone was there before the Jews.

Pep lived forever and will live forever he's god

 

[cucumberman]

Hardly spot on when he makes up stories about children being kidnapped.
Then he complains about discussions about history when it’s Israel’s biggest detractors that tend to start these discussions in an attempt to delegitimise Israel’s existence.

Cant you see that your last sentence is a blanketed attempt to drag people into such discussions in the first place?

I think you are being paranoid. No one in this thread has so far attempted to delegetimise Israel’s existence. More of holding its PM and whoever around his circle accountable and delegtimise their methods. Everyone in the thread was commenting on the atrocities of children being shot at, yet the thread has gone pedantic with discussion along the lines of ‘yes its wrong to shoot at children, but....’. Cant fault them for responding to this as people are so incensed that some would deprioritise the issue of sniping children to talk about issues that no one other than executive members of both parties thousand miles from us are privy to.

Cannot people just go ‘yes its wrong to shoot at children, what were they thinking?’.

Now, on to the discussion at hand. Treatment of children.

Since 2000, at least 8000 children have been detained a majority of which spirited away without their parents being informed. The amendment stipulates that parents must be immediately informed upon detaining but with the loopholes in the amendment these are largely not practised. It can be argued that kidnapping and detaining without informing the parents is not the same, but these are all just semantics. As a parent I consider both the same and the trauma to be the same.

Also, the amendment states that the children are right to an attorney, however the catch is the child must himself state which particular attorney to contact. Thus, making this clause useless.

www.dci-palestine.org/children_in_israeli_detention


An 8 month old baby died 3 days ago as one of the Palestinians who died. If you had the chance to meet the mother while she held the baby in her arms, would you express your sympathy but also backhanded it with a “but....you know...cant fault them...you got your comeuppance” ?

 

[cucumberman]

I’ve been as critical of Netanyahu’s government as anyone so I’m hardly an apologist for his actions. I have also been critical of the excessive force used by some IDF troops. Where I differ is that I believe in Israel’s right to exist whereas you don’t. You want the whole of Israel/Palestine to be a single country with a Jewish minority which would inevitably lead to a huge refugee crisis when a significant number of the Arab majority do their best to kill as many Jews as possible in accordance with the Hamas charter. These discussions always end up with arguments about the legitimacy of the state’s existence and as long as it’s like this there’s no point discussing it further.

He’s posted twice (Homer) and in both instances I cant see where youve drawn to the conclusion that he believe Israel has no right to exist. im certain others neutral to this issue would find his posts to not even near implying that as well.